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Thread: Separation of church and state

  1. #101
    Veteran Member Moorhuhn Wanted Champion Hollywood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    A teacher (or anyone for that matter) shouldn't have to retreat to their home or a church to pray.

    That is the point.

    If a teacher wants to start his or her day out with a prayer - they should be afforded that courtesy. If they want to say a prayer over a meal while at school to thank their god - they should be afford that courtesy. If there is a school shooter stalking their halls and they want to pray to their God for protection - they should be afforded that courtesy.

    The free exercise of religion is a constitutional right - and they shouldn't be denied that right simply because it makes some people uncomfortable.
    I'm a taxpayer. I'm not paying a teacher to pray in class, I'm paying him/her to TEACH.

    But fine, when do you plan to have all schools install bathing basins for Muslim teachers to be able to be able to ritually wash before prayers?
    Or do you only want ONE specific religion to pray in front of their students when they are being paid to teach?
    Last edited by Hollywood; 23rd April 2018 at 04:35 PM.
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    I'm a taxpayer. I'm not paying a teacher to pray in class, I'm paying him/her to TEACH.

    But fine, when do you plan to have all schools install bathing basins for Muslim teachers to be able to be able to ritual wash before prayers?
    Or do you only want ONE specific religion to pray in front of their students when they are being paid to teach?
    I would have no problems with Muslim teachers praying either. So there is no double standard if that is what you are trying to suggest here.

    As far as bathing basins - just because I recognize an individual's right to freely exercise their religion (both in public and private) that does not mean I believe schools and communities should have to fit the bill to install bathing basins or any other device. I would consider that unreasonable - as the freedom to practice religion is a lot different than paying for their religion. But allowing them to simply pray - that is certainly not something I would consider unreasonable.

  3. #103
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    I think going on two years now.

    I've had quite a few pets myself (cats, dogs, iguanas, snakes, parrots, hamsters, gerbils, chickens, guinea pigs, racoons etc.) I even had a pet alligator back when I lived in Florida which terrified my sister when it wandered into her room. She loves animals too - but apparently not alligators because she escaped out the window. lol
    A pet raccoon, huh? A few years back, I had an amazingly tame raccoon come up onto my back porch and sit just outside my screen door, and I literally sat in my dining room chair and chatted at him for about half an hour, started calling him 'Rocky Raccoon', while he just sat there and looked at me; this was all at about 3 AM. I keep very weird hours in the summer. Urban raccoons (and foxes) are becoming very accustomed to humans. We're probably in the process of domesticating them. The Russians HAVE domesticated foxes.

  4. #104
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    I once had a teacher that literally spent the entire class analyzing the friday night football game. If anything was unfair to students and their learning time it was that.

    So to pick on prayer (which many teachers (or at least used to) like to start the day out with) seems a rather trifling matter to expunge on. This is more about indulging a bias toward religion and wanting to blot it away from the public square because it makes some people uncomfortable... and twisting the intent of the first amendment to justify it.
    Well, yeah. I've been saying for decades now that football at some point in time became more important than algebra in most American schools. I think that happened WAY back in the 1970's, after the Sputnik Shock wore off. So you're right about that. Hey, we agree, Jeremy!

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    A pet raccoon, huh? A few years back, I had an amazingly tame raccoon come up onto my back porch and sit just outside my screen door, and I literally sat in my dining room chair and chatted at him for about half an hour, started calling him 'Rocky Raccoon', while he just sat there and looked at me; this was all at about 3 AM. I keep very weird hours in the summer. Urban raccoons (and foxes) are becoming very accustomed to humans. We're probably in the process of domesticating them. The Russians HAVE domesticated foxes.
    I hope so because I love racoons and would love to have a tame one. The one I had was wild - though I did manage to get him to eat bananas out of my hands.

    I had a neighbor who had a pet fox once. Would even take him for walks on the beach on a leash. It was pretty cool.
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  6. #106
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    Read this post Ian and then tell me I'm being "intellectual dishonest" when I say there are those who want to keep religion private and not public.



    I should point out his post was thanked by other members as well.

    So not so intellectually dishonest after all now am I.
    I agree that Claudius was going too far when he wrote that "religion has no place in our public square". I have no real objection to our Presidents ending their speeches with "God bless America". This has become well nigh traditional, as American as apple pie, and the courts regard such utterances as "ceremonial deism". I'm fine with that. I'm not one of those demanding that we take the slogan "In God we trust" off our coins, though it WAS an act of McCarthyism to put it ON our coins in the first place, when we did it back in the 1950's. I'll save my secular ammunition for the more important battles, such as when the nut-cases try to ram and jam 'scientific creationism' or some similar such nonsense and hogwash into our public school science curricula. Then you've got a FIGHT on your hands.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Well, yeah. I've been saying for decades now that football at some point in time became more important than algebra in most American schools. I think that happened WAY back in the 1970's, after the Sputnik Shock wore off. So you're right about that. Hey, we agree, Jeremy!
    Yeah it's pretty bad.

    Most of my high school teachers were coaches of some kind and really didn't take the actual subject of their class seriously. And it's difficult to take a class seriously when even the teacher isn't.

    I would support laws that severed sports from our public schools. In my opinion - they do more harm than good and shift the focus of the administration away from actual education.
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  8. #108
    Nuisance Factor Yeti 8 Jungle Swing Champion, YetiSports 4 - Albatross Overload Champion, YetiSports7 - Snowboard FreeRide Champion, Alu`s Revenge Champion boontito's Avatar
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    I must say, I find it more than a little amusing that the same crowd who accuses educators of indoctrinating students whenever they read aloud to them from a book they don't like or have an assembly for a subject/performer/cause they don't approve of now says exercising their religion outwardly in front of those same students somehow WOULDN'T result in indoctrination.

    #Hypocrites
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  9. #109
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    Yeah it's pretty bad.

    Most of my high school teachers were coaches of some kind and really didn't take the actual subject of their class seriously. And it's difficult to take a class seriously when even the teacher isn't.

    I would support laws that severed sports from our public schools. In my opinion - they do more harm than good and shift the focus of the administration away from actual education.
    America is far too sports-crazy for its own good. When the highest-paid public employee in EVERY state is either a football coach or a basketball coach, you know we've got our priorities all screwed up.
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  10. #110
    Veteran Member carpe diem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    That is not "in the course and scope of one's employment." The teacher is technically "at work," but is not working. It is while around other people, but effectively private because no one else is paying attention (unless a group of teachers got together in the teachers' lunchroom or whatever). But if it is announced to everyone, it becomes public and, if there are students present, within the scope of one's employment.
    What's ridiculous here is you are arguing backwards. The state denying someone their religious expression, their free expression of their religion is the state establishing religion and the practice of this religion. You are arguing just like the biased judges, arriving at the conclusion you are aiming for, not arriving at the logical conclusion the law establishes.
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