Page 4 of 67 FirstFirst ... 234561454 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 662
Thanks Tree318Thanks

Thread: Separation of church and state

  1. #31
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    28,327
    Thanks
    4891

    From
    North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    And yet he would heartily approve of the position they have taken on the separation of church and state. That was an issue even more important to him than his views on judicial powers.
    I seriously doubt Thomas Jefferson would approve of the current interpretation.

    For example: setting up a state religion is a long way away from forbidding teachers from praying in front of students.

  2. #32
    Veteran Member Chief's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    28,915
    Thanks
    10206

    From
    Earth
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    I seriously doubt Thomas Jefferson would approve of the current interpretation.

    For example: setting up a state religion is a long way from forbidding teachers from praying in front of students...
    Right up until your "Christian" child comes home and says he wants to practice Buddhism because his teacher practices it and is a really cool dude.

  3. #33
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    28,327
    Thanks
    4891

    From
    North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief View Post
    Right up until your "Christian" child comes home and says he wants to practice Buddhism because his teacher practices it and is a really cool dude.
    And how is that any different than a child coming home wanting to wear their hair like the teacher they admired does?

    That doesn't justify stripping individuals of their right to freely exercise their religion - anymore than it justifies stripping them of their right to freely express themselves. People should be allowed to pray in public if they want. And I don't believe for a second Jefferson would say otherwise.
    Last edited by Jeremy; 23rd April 2018 at 01:30 PM.

  4. #34
    Veteran Member Moorhuhn Wanted Champion Hollywood's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    71,032
    Thanks
    34859

    From
    Memphis, Tn.
    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    Already fighting over issues. The FFRF constantly hunts for people exercising their freedoms and hires lawyers to shut them down. They use the misinterpreted version of the Separation Clause to do it.
    Tell us EXACTLY what the FFRF is.
    You seem to be trying to imply it is a government agency or something.
    CLARIFY please.
    Thanks from Friday13

  5. #35
    Veteran Member Chief's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    28,915
    Thanks
    10206

    From
    Earth
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    And how is that any different than a child coming home wanting to wear their hair like the teacher they admired does?

    That doesn't justify stripping individuals of their right to freely exercise their religion - anymore than it justifies stripping them of their right to freely express themselves. People should be allowed to pray in public if they want.
    So you are fine with your minor child being proselytized to while at school by adults?
    Thanks from BigLeRoy and Ian Jeffrey

  6. #36
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    28,327
    Thanks
    4891

    From
    North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief View Post
    So you are fine with your minor child being proselytized to while at school by adults?
    No - I'm not ok with teachers attempting to convert students. But that's hardly the same as allowing teachers to pray at school.

    The first amendment was never meant to be the freedom not to see other people practicing their religion in public - which is an absurd interpretation.

    In other words: a teacher praying at school is not setting up an establishment of religion. That's ridiculous. Now setting up some kind of state religion certainly is.
    Last edited by Jeremy; 23rd April 2018 at 01:34 PM.

  7. #37
    Veteran Member Chief's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    28,915
    Thanks
    10206

    From
    Earth
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    No - I'm not ok with teachers attempting to convert students. But that's hardly the same as allowing teachers to pray at school.

    The first amendment was never meant to be the freedom not to see other people practicing their religion in public - which is an absurd interpretation.

    In other words: a teacher praying at school is not setting up an establishment of religion. That's ridiculous. Now setting up some kind of state religion certainly is.
    It is not exactly the same, but it is related. Your child's teacher is very influential on the children in his or her class. The teacher's praying in their presence amounts to an endorsement of whatever that faith is to them. It's not reasonable to expect them to deal with that. The teacher can pray at home. If he or she needs to get an emergency prayer out (not intending to be condescending) then perhaps silently in the teachers lounge or something. There needs to be a way for it to not impede on others.
    Thanks from HCProf

  8. #38
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    28,327
    Thanks
    4891

    From
    North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief View Post
    It is not exactly the same, but it is related. Your child's teacher is very influential on the children in his or her class. The teacher's praying in their presence amounts to an endorsement of whatever that faith is to them. It's not reasonable to expect them to deal with that. The teacher can pray at home. If he or she needs to get an emergency prayer out (not intending to be condescending) then perhaps silently in the teachers lounge or something. There needs to be a way for it to not impede on others.
    I disagree. Allowing people to freely practice their religion in public is not the same as an endorsement - nor does it amount to it. That's like saying a teacher can't drink coffee at school - otherwise they are endorsing coffee and some parents may not want their children drinking coffee. It's a silly argument to me.

    And what isn't reasonable to me is for a court to interpret the free exercise of religion to mean you can't practice your religion in public but have to do it privately instead. I could not think of a more asinine interpretation if I tired.

    In any case - it's not the job of the Government or the courts for that matter to try and control who does or doesn't have influence on others. That's a choice for the individuals involved to make. So if a student is inspired by their teacher's faith - so what? That's not something that should be litigated. So long as no student is forced or otherwise compelled to partake in any religious practice or belief I fail to see an issue with it.

    Our constitution never intended to ban religion from the public sphere. That's an example of judicial despotism - which Thomas Jefferson warned us would happen.
    Last edited by Jeremy; 23rd April 2018 at 02:17 PM.

  9. #39
    Southern Strategy Liberal OldGaffer's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    42,596
    Thanks
    45041

    From
    Nashville, TN
    There is no conflict if you send your kids to a private religious school, they can be indoctrinated to your hearts content. But if it is a public school paid for by the general public, then my kids and grandkids need to be left the fuck alone by all radical religious extremists
    Thanks from Friday13 and Panzareta

  10. #40
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    57,852
    Thanks
    33437

    From
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    The argument of Separartion of Church and State has been based on a false premise propagated by Liberals mostly . The government was not to impede on the churches free exercise, but the atheist goal is to do just that. The fear that religion is about to become a Theocracy is also false and they use that to further limit free exercise
    This is nonsense. The government's limits as to religion arise from SCOTUS decisions, not "liberal lies".

    Was there something specific that occurred which touched off this anxiety, @aboutenough?

Page 4 of 67 FirstFirst ... 234561454 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Separation of church and state.
    By Rev. Hellh0und in forum Current Events
    Replies: 173
    Last Post: 11th November 2012, 07:03 AM
  2. Separation of church and state
    By michaelr in forum Political Discussion
    Replies: 204
    Last Post: 1st November 2009, 04:22 PM
  3. Separation of Church and State
    By Tick in forum Philosophy and Religion
    Replies: 108
    Last Post: 19th September 2008, 02:24 AM
  4. Separation of church and state
    By Jack Flash in forum Political Discussion
    Replies: 163
    Last Post: 10th April 2008, 11:19 AM
  5. Separation of Church and State
    By Jack Flash in forum Political Discussion
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 30th January 2008, 02:18 PM

Tags for this Thread


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed