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Thread: Separation of church and state

  1. #561
    Veteran Member Michael J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    you can post odd cartoons about me
    I will ask you again: Is Gary Cole a cartoon character?

  2. #562
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael J View Post
    Where are their tombs?
    https://www.infoplease.com/dictionar...s-where-buried

  3. #563
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael J View Post
    Okay, I'm going to have to go ahead and post some corrections. The judge always assumes the witnesses are making material claims, not supernatural ones. Also, the witnesses must always identify themselves. There is no way to identify those witnesses because...well, there is no historical evidence that they existed.



    If you could actually read my words, that would be great. I know you're uneducated and have a low vocabulary, but try your best. Do you have any idea how easy it is to find inconsistencies in eye witness testimony?



    Oh and one more big correction: No court in the land would accept testimony from witnesses who make supernatural claims and can't even identify themselves. If you could go ahead and admit that you don't know anything about the legal system, that would be great. You make the same circular arguments: People claiming to be witnesses say Christ was resurrected, Christ was resurrected because people claiming to be witnesses say he was. The conclusion is assumed to be true in the premise. You can't do that when formulating an argument.
    You said Jesus Christ does not or ever did exist. You are saying a witness cannot even testify he existed. Nothing supernatural about that, but you just don't want to hear the truth

  4. #564
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues63 View Post
    *SIGH* But as I've told you previously, the authorship was unknown and these names were simply attributed to the books without any surety. You really have no experience in ancient texts and their history, do you?

    The best we can say for three of them is that they share similarities in narrative from a common source known as 'Q', and this text was written sometime in the first cent. CE after the destruction of the Temple. John's gospel is rather different to other three and even they have anomalies among them, such as the interpolation of the resurrection in Mark; the differing lineages of Christ and the confused dates for his birth (4 BCE or 6CE)-all of which I've related to you on previous occasions.

    'John's' gospel seems to be telling another story entirely.

    You really should read the Jerusalem Bible (Student Edition) as opposed to the KJV, as it highlights the discrepancies and anomalies within the narrative(s) for the layperson.
    I have read the Jerusalem Bible and there isn't any discrepancies. Best to check the Greek to see if there is a difference. Johns book tells additional information, but none of the gospels differ in their message of "Good News of Jesus Christ".

  5. #565
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael J View Post
    How do you know that happened?



    This is another Argumentum ad Martyrdom fallacy.



    This error in reasoning is a Homunculus Fallacy. You just repeat the same argument in an infinite regress after I contradicted it. You'll go around and around in an endless loop until your stamina runs out.

    https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/...nculus_Fallacy
    Since you won't accept the Bible as evidence why waste my time posting evidence. That pesky word "evidence" , is not allowed in your world.

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    Veteran Member Michael J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    You said Jesus Christ does not or ever did exist.
    You're missing an important modal verb in that sentence. I said Jesus Christ probably was not even a real person. Since his tomb is nowhere to be found, and there are few historical sources proving he was a real person, it is unlikely the biblical Jesus Christ existed.

    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    You are saying a witness cannot even testify he existed.
    There you go again, AE. You're not reading my posts just like you do with Ian. I never said witnesses can't testify that he merely existed. The resurrection isn't a question of Christ's mere existence, and witnesses assert more than that. They say he rose from the dead and levitated into the sky. Supernatural events like that can't be investigated.

    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    Nothing supernatural about that,
    Of course there isn't anything supernatural about a person's existence. There is something supernatural about a guy who magically rises from the dead and levitates.

    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    but you just don't want to hear the truth
    Now you're going back to the middle school playground.
    Last edited by Michael J; 14th May 2018 at 04:13 PM.

  7. #567
    DEEP STATE CEO Blues63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    I have read the Jerusalem Bible and there isn't any discrepancies.
    Obviously you didn't comprehend it on my level or that of the scholars who produced the footnotes. Or you were reading another edition of the texts.

    Best to check the Greek to see if there is a difference.
    I've done that as I've studied Classical languages, as well as referring to Strong's for context if not immediately obvious, then I can make a judgement. I've also translated Mark (Marcus) from the Vulgate into English.

    Johns book tells additional information, but none of the gospels differ in their message of "Good News of Jesus Christ".
    John also evinces conflicting details as do the others as I've previously stated. The 'message' is not a part of my point at all as I'm focussing upon the merit of the texts as historical documents.

  8. #568
    Veteran Member Michael J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    Since you won't accept the Bible as evidence why waste my time posting evidence.
    Written questions end with a question mark: Since you won't accept the Bible as evidence why waste my time posting evidence?

    An elementary understanding of argumentation says the Holy Bible is not evidence. A book cannot prove itself. When giving evidence for something, you must have premises that support your conclusion. If you say "The Holy Bible says X is true, X is true because the Holy Bible says it is true," you don't have any premises to prove your conclusion. Instead, you assume your conclusion to be true in the premises.

    Think of it this way: When Chicken Little goes around telling everyone the sky is falling, is the sky actually falling just because Chicken Little says it is falling?

    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    That pesky word "evidence" , is not allowed in your world.
    This is yet another Definist Fallacy where you manipulate meanings of words in order to make your argument look stronger. You have an incorrect definition of evidence. The Holy Bible is not evidence, as I explained to you above, yet you are accusing me of throwing out evidence because you incorrectly believe it is evidence. See the Chicken Little analogy for more information.

  9. #569
    Veteran Member Michael J's Avatar
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    The giveaway is right there in the first sentence: According to Catholic legend, seven of the Apostles are buried at Rome.

    Do you know what a legend is?

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    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael J View Post
    You're missing an important modal verb in that sentence. I said Jesus Christ probably was not even a real person. Since his tomb is nowhere to be found, and there are few historical sources proving he was a real person, it is unlikely the biblical Jesus Christ existed.



    There you go again, AE. You're not reading my posts just like you do with Ian. I never said witnesses can't testify that he merely existed. The resurrection isn't a question of Christ's mere existence, and witnesses assert more than that. They say he rose from the dead and levitated into the sky. Supernatural events like that can't be investigated.



    Of course there isn't anything supernatural about a person's existence. There is something supernatural about a guy who magically rises from the dead and levitates.



    Now you're going back to the middle school playground.
    You said Jesus never existed, so now you sound like you are accepting the possibility he existed because of what scholars claim. You are kind of going back and forth here. You are only willing to believe something you believe should happen, not something supernatural. Never heard of a scientist thinking that way, thats discounting evidence based on your conclusive thinking, not the evidence at hand. That's not critical thinking, that biased thinking. That would be like a group researching the cure for Cancer and saying there is no possibility of a cure because they believe it can't happen. Pre conceived conclusions

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