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Thread: Separation of church and state

  1. #591
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael J View Post
    Read what I wrote about the Russian government. Reading comprehension!

    Hitler wrote a book. There are numerous pictures of him and recorded footage of him giving speeches.
    There is numerous books of what Jesus said in his lifetime and many witnesses that saw him. No cameras before the 1800's, does that mean no one existed before then. According to you apparently they didn't unless there was a photo of them

  2. #592
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael J View Post
    Hence the same circular argument: The Holy Bible says witnesses were there, witnesses were there because the Holy Bible says they were there the conclusion is assumed to be true in the premises.

    You haven't answered the question yet: If Chicken Little and his adherents say the sky is falling, does that mean the sky really is falling just because they say it's falling?

    Why must you give me these kindergarten critical thinking exercises, Bo Bennett? I am way too advanced for them.



    Those witnesses don't confirm the other ones. They contradict them. There are so many logical contradictions in the Holy Bible it isn't even funny.

    You make the same circular arguments: The people who wrote the Holy Bible say the Holy Bible is true, the Holy Bible is true because the people who wrote the Holy Bible say it's true. Your conclusion is assumed to be true in the premises.
    No contradictions of the life of Jesus. You will never win this argument. No one has ever proved Jesus didn't exist or did the things they said he did.

  3. #593
    Veteran Member Michael J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    I will provide them if you show me the burial place of Hitler and Amelia Earhart. They don't exist if we don't know where there body is.
    A quick YouTube search on Hitler's body will show you many photographs that the Russians have of Hitler's body.

  4. #594
    Veteran Member Michael J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    There is numerous books of what Jesus said in his lifetime and many witnesses that saw him.
    Yet another circular argument: People who wrote about someone named Jesus Christ say Christ was real, Christ was real because people who wrote about someone named Jesus Christ say he was. People claiming to be witnesses say Christ was real, Christ was real because people claiming to be witnesses say he was. The conclusion is assumed to be true in the premises.

    Boy these baby critical thinking exercises are boring.

    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    No cameras before the 1800's, does that mean no one existed before then.
    You're the one who said there is more evidence of Christ's resurrection than there is the moon landing, as though there were cameras and camcorders 2,000 years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    does that mean no one existed before then. According to you apparently they didn't unless there was a photo of them
    Quote me where I said that and I will explain your Non sequitur to you.

  5. #595
    Veteran Member Michael J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    No contradictions of the life of Jesus. You will never win this argument.
    The Holy Bible has logical contradictions from front to back.

    https://infidels.org/library/modern/...adictions.html

    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    No one has ever proved Jesus didn't exist or did the things they said he did.
    The nay-sayers don't have to. The burden of proof is on the individual making the positive claim: You. And so far, all you have is the same circular arguments.
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  6. #596
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael J View Post
    A quick YouTube search on Hitler's body will show you many photographs that the Russians have of Hitler's body.
    If you don't know where he was buried then what will you say? Is there absolute proof it was Hitlers body ?

    There is also controversy regarding the authenticity of skull and jaw fragments that were recovered.[n][o] In 2009, American researchers performed DNA tests on a skull fragment that Soviet officials had long believed to be that of Hitler. The DNA tests and examination revealed that the skull was actually that of a woman less than 40 years old.[3] The recovered jaw fragments were not tested.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Adolf_Hitler
    The Soviets shelled the area in and around the Reich Chancellery on and off during the afternoon. SS guards brought over additional cans of petrol to further burn the corpses. Linge later noted the fire did not completely destroy the remains, as the corpses were being burned in the open, where the distribution of heat varies.[38] The corpses burned from 16:00 to 18:30.[39] At approximately 18:30, Lindloff and Reisser covered up the remains in a shallow bomb crater.

    You tell me if there is no remains of Christ then he didn't exist. Now tell me Hitler didn't exist because no remains were found. They took a DNA test of the bones and found out it wasn't Hitler, but a young 40 year old woman. By your method Hitler doesn't exist

  7. #597
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael J View Post
    The Holy Bible has logical contradictions from front to back.

    https://infidels.org/library/modern/...adictions.html



    The nay-sayers don't have to. The burden of proof is on the individual making the positive claim: You. And so far, all you have is the same circular arguments.
    I don't have to prove its right because many witnesses said its true. You say its false, so the burden is on you to prove it false. So far you just say its a fairy tale without even examining the evidence. You say the testimonies are not allowed because there is to much to deny and your argument folds in seconds, You are fighting a losing battle, no Atheist has ever proved what Christ Did is False. Some have tried and gone crazy trying or given up and believed the truth that Jesus is the Christ.

  8. #598
    Veteran Member Michael J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    I don't have to prove its right because many witnesses said its true.
    Yet another circular argument: People claiming to be witnesses say it's true, it is true because people claiming to be witnesses say so. The conclusion is assumed to be true in the premises.

    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    You say its false, so the burden is on you to prove it false.
    In other words, the prosecutor doesn't have to prove the defendant guilty? The defense needs to prove a negative?

    Of course not. The burden of proof is on the individual making the positive claim: You. So far, you have nothing but circular arguments.

    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    So far you just say its a fairy tale
    Fairy tales always involve supernatural characters like angels and demons and the other characters in the Holy Bible. It sounds very much like a fairy tale.

    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    without even examining the evidence.
    The evidence your presented is the Holy Bible: a book of circular arguments that is full of logical contradictions. Josephus' work is a forgery and Christ has no tomb.

    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    You say the testimonies are not allowed
    You make the same Definist Fallacies where you manipulate definitions of words in order to make your argument look stronger. The Holy Bible doesn't have testimonies. That is like saying Battlefield Earth is L. Ron Hubbard's testimony stating the Psychlo Aliens existed.


    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    no Atheist has ever proved what Christ Did is False.
    They don't have to. The burden of proof isn't on the naysayers.

    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    Some have tried and gone crazy trying or given up and believed the truth that Jesus is the Christ.
    This logical fallacy is Anonymous Authority. You are quoting fictional sources.

  9. #599
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael J View Post
    Yet another circular argument: People claiming to be witnesses say it's true, it is true because people claiming to be witnesses say so. The conclusion is assumed to be true in the premises.



    In other words, the prosecutor doesn't have to prove the defendant guilty? The defense needs to prove a negative?

    Of course not. The burden of proof is on the individual making the positive claim: You. So far, you have nothing but circular arguments.



    Fairy tales always involve supernatural characters like angels and demons and the other characters in the Holy Bible. It sounds very much like a fairy tale.



    The evidence your presented is the Holy Bible: a book of circular arguments that is full of logical contradictions. Josephus' work is a forgery and Christ has no tomb.



    You make the same Definist Fallacies where you manipulate definitions of words in order to make your argument look stronger. The Holy Bible doesn't have testimonies. That is like saying Battlefield Earth is L. Ron Hubbard's testimony stating the Psychlo Aliens existed.




    They don't have to. The burden of proof isn't on the naysayers.



    This logical fallacy is Anonymous Authority. You are quoting fictional sources.
    You are really good at this. You believe Hitler is dead because of photos taken by the Russians, yet I showed the DNA is not Hitler. You are having a hard time keeping up with your reasoning here. Christ doesn't exist because there is no proof of his tomb even though they are about 99 % sure of where his tomb is. The witnesses aren't allowed because its a collection of witnesses you don't agree with. Not a very good investigative reporter are you. I proved positives, yet your only hope of negatives are made up stories related to some Russians that took pictures of Hitlers body . Good one.

  10. #600
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    What about the wall of separation between church and state? Did you know a recent poll demonstrated that 67% of Americans believe the phrase separation of church and state is found in the first amendment of the constitution? That phrase isn’t found in the first amendment or anywhere else in the constitution. In the year 1800, Thomas Jefferson was the newly elected President of the United States. A group of Baptists in Danbury, Connecticut heard the rumor that Thomas Jefferson was going to establish the congregational denomination as the state denomination.
    They wrote a letter to Thomas Jefferson protesting this rumor that the congregational church was going to be the state church. And so Thomas Jefferson on January 1, 1802 wrote this letter to the Baptists.
    “I contemplate with solemn reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no all respecting and establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof thus building a wall of separation between church and state.’”
    Jefferson was referring to an establishment of a denomination, not a religion. The First Amendment that prohibits government from establishing a particular religion deals with denominations not faiths. He was saying, we’re not going to make one denomination the state denomination. More importantly, what I want you to see is, Thomas Jefferson used this phrase to reassure Christians that government would do nothing to prohibit their free exercise of religion.https://ptv.org/america-is-a-christian-nation/

    Liberals have been perpetrating this lie for a very long time. Time to expose them in what they are doing once and for all. Jefferson wrote the letter to the Church to reassure them that government would not prohibit their free exercise. Today Atheist and Secularist are using the Freedom From Religious Foundation as a tool to limit free exercise. the exact opposite of what Jefferson wanted
    That group of Baptists was led by Roger Williams, Founder of the Baptist Faith. He was a friend of Thomas Jefferson. They worked to make sure they were separate.

    The Southern Baptist Church has gone so far away from what Roger Williams believed it is not the same Church.

    There are many good Baptist Churches that do not fools.

    Even the Southern Baptist is split into 2 factions. One is strictly Evangelical, very dogmatic, the other believes in inclusion of every one.
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