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Thread: Separation of church and state

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    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Separation of church and state

    What about the wall of separation between church and state? Did you know a recent poll demonstrated that 67% of Americans believe the phrase separation of church and state is found in the first amendment of the constitution? That phrase isn’t found in the first amendment or anywhere else in the constitution. In the year 1800, Thomas Jefferson was the newly elected President of the United States. A group of Baptists in Danbury, Connecticut heard the rumor that Thomas Jefferson was going to establish the congregational denomination as the state denomination.
    They wrote a letter to Thomas Jefferson protesting this rumor that the congregational church was going to be the state church. And so Thomas Jefferson on January 1, 1802 wrote this letter to the Baptists.
    “I contemplate with solemn reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no all respecting and establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof thus building a wall of separation between church and state.’”
    Jefferson was referring to an establishment of a denomination, not a religion. The First Amendment that prohibits government from establishing a particular religion deals with denominations not faiths. He was saying, we’re not going to make one denomination the state denomination. More importantly, what I want you to see is, Thomas Jefferson used this phrase to reassure Christians that government would do nothing to prohibit their free exercise of religion.https://ptv.org/america-is-a-christian-nation/

    Liberals have been perpetrating this lie for a very long time. Time to expose them in what they are doing once and for all. Jefferson wrote the letter to the Church to reassure them that government would not prohibit their free exercise. Today Atheist and Secularist are using the Freedom From Religious Foundation as a tool to limit free exercise. the exact opposite of what Jefferson wanted

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    Veteran Member Chief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    What about the wall of separation between church and state? Did you know a recent poll demonstrated that 67% of Americans believe the phrase separation of church and state is found in the first amendment of the constitution? That phrase isn’t found in the first amendment or anywhere else in the constitution. In the year 1800, Thomas Jefferson was the newly elected President of the United States. A group of Baptists in Danbury, Connecticut heard the rumor that Thomas Jefferson was going to establish the congregational denomination as the state denomination.
    They wrote a letter to Thomas Jefferson protesting this rumor that the congregational church was going to be the state church. And so Thomas Jefferson on January 1, 1802 wrote this letter to the Baptists.
    “I contemplate with solemn reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no all respecting and establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof thus building a wall of separation between church and state.’”
    Jefferson was referring to an establishment of a denomination, not a religion. The First Amendment that prohibits government from establishing a particular religion deals with denominations not faiths. He was saying, we’re not going to make one denomination the state denomination. More importantly, what I want you to see is, Thomas Jefferson used this phrase to reassure Christians that government would do nothing to prohibit their free exercise of religion.https://ptv.org/america-is-a-christian-nation/

    Liberals have been perpetrating this lie for a very long time. Time to expose them in what they are doing once and for all. Jefferson wrote the letter to the Church to reassure them that government would not prohibit their free exercise. Today Atheist and Secularist are using the Freedom From Religious Foundation as a tool to limit free exercise. the exact opposite of what Jefferson wanted
    Your rights and others rights are equally important. When there is a conflict, where one persons rights impede another person, that is not fair and so the person who is impeded ought to win. Ask an example, you can pray as much as you like. But that doesn't mean that you can make others pray or even listen to you pray. That protection that others enjoy, not allowing you to force your praying on them does not prevent you from praying... so your right is protected. It does prevent you from forcing yourself on another, so their rights are also protected.

    This is not that hard, About.
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    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief View Post
    Your rights and others rights are equally important. When there is a conflict, where one persons rights impede another person, that is not fair and so the person who is impeded ought to win. Ask an example, you can pray as much as you like. But that doesn't mean that you can make others pray or even listen to you pray. That protection that others enjoy, not allowing you to force your praying on them does not prevent you from praying... so your right is protected. It does prevent you from forcing yourself on another, so their rights are also protected.
    The Atheist argument against religious rights
    This is not that hard, About.
    The argument of Separartion of Church and State has been based on a false premise propagated by Liberals mostly . The government was not to impede on the churches free exercise, but the atheist goal is to do just that. The fear that religion is about to become a Theocracy is also false and they use that to further limit free exercise
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    Veteran Member carpe diem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief View Post
    Your rights and others rights are equally important. When there is a conflict, where one persons rights impede another person, that is not fair and so the person who is impeded ought to win. Ask an example, you can pray as much as you like. But that doesn't mean that you can make others pray or even listen to you pray. That protection that others enjoy, not allowing you to force your praying on them does not prevent you from praying... so your right is protected. It does prevent you from forcing yourself on another, so their rights are also protected.

    This is not that hard, About.
    Yet - The gay activist's want people prosecuted when they refuse to condone and support gays. Gay activist's can hurl homophobic, bigotry, etc etc accusations all day long, but if someone in turn says that homosexuality is a perversion...Now it's time to prosecute. AND if that is a law, then the gov is establishing religious practice, by deciding what they can and cannot say and/or believe.
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    Veteran Member Eve1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    The argument of Separartion of Church and State has been based on a false premise propagated by Liberals mostly . The government was not to impede on the churches free exercise, but the atheist goal is to do just that. The fear that religion is about to become a Theocracy is also false and they use that to further limit free exercise
    Nope, you're wrong.It is not a liberal premise.

    The phrase "separation between church & state" is generally traced to a January 1, 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson, addressed to the Danbury Baptist Association in Connecticut, and published in a Massachusetts newspaper. Jefferson wrote,

    “ "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."[1] ”
    Jefferson was echoing the language of the founder of the first Baptist church in America, Roger Williams who had written in 1644,

    “ "[A] hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world." ”
    Article Six of the United States Constitution also specifies that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."
    Last edited by Eve1; 23rd April 2018 at 09:46 AM.
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    Veteran Member Chief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpe diem View Post
    Yet - The gay activist's want people prosecuted when they refuse to condone and support gays. Gay activist's can hurl homophobic, bigotry, etc etc accusations all day long, but if someone in turn says that homosexuality is a perversion...Now it's time to prosecute.
    Can you provide some examples of people prosecuted for saying that homosexuality is a perversion?

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    Veteran Member carpe diem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief View Post
    Can you provide some examples of people prosecuted for saying that homosexuality is a perversion?
    I am warning against it as we move that direction here in the US.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...-is-a-sin.html

    State forbids pastors calling homosexuality ?sinful?
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    Veteran Member carpe diem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eve1 View Post
    Nope, you're wrong.It is not a liberal premise.

    The phrase "separation between church & state" is generally traced to a January 1, 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson, addressed to the Danbury Baptist Association in Connecticut, and published in a Massachusetts newspaper. Jefferson wrote,

    “ "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."[1] ”
    Jefferson was echoing the language of the founder of the first Baptist church in America, Roger Williams who had written in 1644,

    “ "[A] hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world." ”
    Article Six of the United States Constitution also specifies that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."
    Source -

    Amendment I (Religion): St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries, 1:App. 296--97, 2:App. 3--11

    This inestimable and imprescriptible right is guaranteed to the citizens of the United States, as such, by the constitution of the United States, which declares, that no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States; and by that amendment to the constitution of the United States, which prohibits congress from making any law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; and to the citizens of Virginia by the bill of rights, which declares, "that religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence, and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience: and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice christian forbearance, love, and charity, towards each other." And further, by the act for establishing religious freedom, by which it is also declared, "that no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry, whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument maintain their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities."

    Amendment I (Religion): Thomas Jefferson to Danbury Baptist Association

    Amendment I (Religion): Roger Williams, The Bloody Tenent, Of Persecution for Cause of Conscience

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    Veteran Member Eve1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpe diem View Post
    Source -

    Amendment I (Religion): St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries, 1:App. 296--97, 2:App. 3--11

    This inestimable and imprescriptible right is guaranteed to the citizens of the United States, as such, by the constitution of the United States, which declares, that no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States; and by that amendment to the constitution of the United States, which prohibits congress from making any law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; and to the citizens of Virginia by the bill of rights, which declares, "that religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence, and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience: and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice christian forbearance, love, and charity, towards each other." And further, by the act for establishing religious freedom, by which it is also declared, "that no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry, whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument maintain their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities."

    Amendment I (Religion): Thomas Jefferson to Danbury Baptist Association

    Amendment I (Religion): Roger Williams, The Bloody Tenent, Of Persecution for Cause of Conscience
    Like I said to the other poster, it definable is not a liberal premise and is in fact a cornerstone of the founding fathers.
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    Veteran Member carpe diem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eve1 View Post
    Like I said to the other poster, it definable is not a liberal premise and is in fact a cornerstone of the founding fathers.
    In it's origin it was Jefferson declaring the state could not establish religion. Liberals have, like with so much of the Constitution (see general welfare) perverted / warped this to suit their particular needs.
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