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Thread: Boss Comes To Work Sick

  1. #31
    Veteran Member Chief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    Good advice, but to add my prickish two cents here: I find it a bit insulting for someone like her to be giving a commencement address where she offers what amounts to career advice. She was the daughter of a multi-millionaire president of a major corporation, and then a housewife married to another old-money businessman. She never had "bosses and managers." She never had to make her own way in the world. She was served life on a silver platter. She was always in a position to put her family ahead of career, because for her being in good with her family meant living a life of prestige and luxury, from the time she was a girl until her dying day, without ever having to work for a living.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Bush

    Even though she never had to work, it looks like she never stopped working.
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  2. #32
    Moderator HCProf's Avatar
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    PTO is common in Healthcare. It is a combination of personal days, sick time and vacation. It works out to be 5 weeks a year. The longer you work, more time is added. You earn your PTO every pay period and you can borrow against it if you are sick. The hospital will send you home if you are dumb enough to report to work sick. The school discourages staff to report to work sick because a virus can go through a school like wild fire and some cases can close the school until the virus runs its course. We also send sick kids home if their parents send them to school sick. I do a lot of prevention in the school for example, we have hand sanitizers all over the building, so my rule is foam in and out every time you leave the room. My students also clean their work stations before they leave for their next class with antimicrobial wipes. My school also uses "viral bombs" on the weekends to destroy any germs. I rarely get sick because I have been exposed to every thing under the sun and nothing really penetrates my immune system anymore. My first year as a nurse, I was sick constantly...same when I first started teaching HS. It was like clock work...every September then it just stopped after the second year.

    In the 80's, it was a different story. My sales manager wanted to know every detail if we called off. I remember our secretary had really painful "monthlies" and would call off and the manager threatened her constantly...told her to take a aspirin and get her ass to work. Literally. One day, I got him back for her, he had a backache and asked me if I had anything. I gave him a Midol. LOL He wanted to know what it was since it worked so well and I told him. He literally freaked out in panic. It was hilarious.

  3. #33
    Member Arkady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boontito View Post
    https://www.geekwire.com/2017/employ...s-telecommute/

    Washington state businesses will be eligible for new tax credits when they let employees work remotely if the legislature passes a new bill filed in advance of the 2018 legislative session.

    If approved, the bill would allow employers to collect tax credits for “telework expenditures,” such as equipment that allows employees to work remotely. Companies could also get an annual tax break of $500 per employee who works remotely at least 12 days each month, up to $20,000. The credit only applies to employees of companies headquartered Washington and it can’t exceed the amount of taxes the company owes.
    That's really interesting. I'd really like to see it done at the federal level, though, since once you move to telecommuting, the distinctions between states become even less consequential. For example, if I'm working for a Massachusetts-based company, by way of telecommuting, it hardly matters if I'm physically in Massachusetts or Maine or Florida. Federal-level rules also prevent companies from gaming things (by, say, ostensibly headquartering people in Washington, just for tax purposes, when they may have a more meaningful nexus with some other state).

  4. #34
    Member Arkady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    True but she by all accounts, was a loving mother and wife. They stood by her at the end. She easily could have passed them all off to nannies but she didnt. She couldnt help what she was born into but I do think she did well by her children.
    Yes. I've heard the same. And I don't mean to bad-mouth her. It just seems that the particular topic at hand --bosses and managers-- is one she's unusually poorly suited to speak about, having never had those things.
    Thanks from Ian Jeffrey

  5. #35
    Member Arkady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Bush

    Even though she never had to work, it looks like she never stopped working.
    Yes, and I don't mean to insult her. It's not her fault she was born into the aristocracy. I just think that those who never have to work aren't in a good position to advise those of us who had to make our own way in the world. Even in situations where she was working, she was always either her own boss, or in a position where she was magnanimously providing her services and could have walked away from a particular engagement or task the moment she had a personality conflict or was expected to do something she didn't feel like doing. That puts her, psychologically, in a fundamentally different position from the vast majority of people who have known what it's like to live paycheck to paycheck, and to know that sometimes sucking it up and finding a way to please a boss or manager is going to be the only way to make sure there's food on the family's table and a roof over their head at the end of the day.

    There's this great episode from the 1980s TV show "The Wonder Years" that I thought captured things perfectly. It's called "The Cost of Living." The main character is Kevin, a kid in his early teens, who takes a job as a caddy at the local golf course, where he ends up caddying for his father's boss in a game against his father. At the beginning of the episode, Kevin identifies with the boss and has barely concealed contempt for his father's quiet submission to the man. But through the course of the round of golf he comes to realize what a bastard the boss is, and also comes to understand why his father defers to him. Near the end, the boss is coming unglued because he's losing to Kevin's father, and then Kevin watches as his father intentionally throws the last hole, to let the boss win. From the end of the script:

    "That day, I began to realize something about this man I was trying so hard not to be like.... He understood the value of money and the cost of it..... I guess dad knew he could lose a game and still not lose his manhood."

    I think people like Barbara Bush don't understand the cost of money, because it always came easily to them. They never had to swallow their pride to keep their economic superiors happy, because they were always the economic superiors. And that's why they're in no position to talk about dealing with bosses and managers.
    Last edited by Arkady; 14th May 2018 at 07:53 AM.
    Thanks from Ian Jeffrey and MaryAnne

  6. #36
    #walkaway orangecat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebateDrone View Post
    What I can't believe is that an employer can force you to work any hours he chooses.
    Employers can't force such things. They can ask, but the final decision lies with the employee.

  7. #37
    Veteran Member Dangermouse's Avatar
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    The UK has "statutory sick pay" which is a minimum sick leave payment. Most large UK employers pay full pay for at least six months, then half-pay to a year. At some point the question becomes will you ever be fit to return? There are set processes to be followed at this point.

    " If you earn over 112 per week and are incapable of working for more than four days in a row, you are entitled to Statutory Sick Pay (SSP) of 88.45 per week from the fourth working day on which you are unable to attend work. This is the minimum legal amount your employer must pay you for up to 28 weeks of sick leave. 17 Sep 2015 ..."

    National minimum wage then was 268 pw full time, so most part-time workers were covered too.

  8. #38
    #walkaway orangecat's Avatar
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    Why should the government force employers to pay people who aren't working? The deal is, if you show up and perform an agreed upon task, you get compensated. If you don't show up, someone else does the job and they are compensated.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebateDrone View Post
    What I can't believe is that an employer can force you to work any hours he chooses.

    No one should have a problem with working 8-10 or even 12 hours but to force a worker to work 14 or more 7 days is not cool.

    I was working two projects, 12 hours daily, 10 on saturday and 8 on sunday for 3 months.

    Everyone, unplanned and without the knowledge of the others, took the same weekend off.

    We came into work on Moday with the boss going ape shit. He called all of us into a meeting where he went off on us.

    He stated to everyone, that from that day forward would work 14 hour days...7 days a week was mandatory until the main project was complete.

    After the meeting, I went to my desk, packed a box with my junk and rolled my chair and junk out the door.

    I never knew that an employer can force unlimited hours work from an employee.
    That's what happens to overzealous bosses who think they can dictate to the workforce whatever they want. There are laws about that as well. The boss needs to also pay close attention to paying them overtime, time and a half or even double time when he demands such work from his or her employees. What you did to just leave is laudable. KUDOS to you! It should not have amounted to slave labor as appears to be the case here.

  10. #40
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    Most employers have either sick leave or PTO for permanent staff. Temp/part-time staff usually don't get any benefits at all, just straight wage per hour actually worked plus FICA/Medicare/Worker's Compensation, as mandated. So the crying over people who receive no sick time because they actually receive no benefits is just part of the fact that some jobs simply provide no benefits. Some people seem to just decide for themselves a policy is definitely a great idea based on nothing other than what feels good and kind and empathetic. "Then everyone should get full benefits!" The practicality, the amount of money that it costs, who pays for it, are not the least bit relevant to a lot of people, apparently.

    If you have a policy of paid sick leave, do you pay it out at termination, or no? If no, expect your healthy employees to whine that they lose out relative to people who had to redeem it. If yes, be prepared to decide just how much they get to accrue, book a long-term liability in your financial statements, and report to your board on it. Do you have a separate vacation leave policy? Same questions apply there. If you pay the accrued sick leave out at termination, people are going to try to accrue it because it feels like extra money to them, which will lead some of them to come to work when they shouldn't. If you don't pay it out at termination, it encourages abuse of the paid sick leave (feigning illness).

    How do you prevent abuse of the sick leave policy? Require people to go to the doctor just for the sake of providing you evidence they're sick? That's fairly harsh when people just have a bad cold or flu, but otherwise require no particular medical attention. But if you require nothing, expect people to feign illness, especially if they know they're going to be retiring or changing jobs soon (especially if they can't cash in their sick leave).

    None of these are unsolvable, but what's appropriate from any given employer's perspective is going to vary a little, and I find it really unfair and petulant that left wingers tend to jump straight to overgeneralized accusations of employers as being Draconian with employees and depriving them of time to deal with illness. That's not generally true. People that get zero benefits know what they're signing up for before they decide to accept the job. And any employer who's just a complete asshole when people get sick is... well... a complete asshole and that probably extends to every aspect of working for him. Do your part to make sure his turnover is intolerably high... don't work for complete assholes (and tell your friends not to either).
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 14th May 2018 at 09:08 AM.
    Thanks from boontito and orangecat

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