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Thread: I agree with Trump on Israel

  1. #111
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    What are the advantages of having the embassy in Jerusalem?
    Making Benjamin Netanyahu happier than a clam?
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  2. #112
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Making Benjamin Netanyahu happier than a clam?
    Well obviously... But I'm looking for advantages for civilians - whether in the Palestinian territories, or in Israel, or in the U.S.

  3. #113
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    Well obviously... But I'm looking for advantages for civilians - whether in the Palestinian territories, or in Israel, or in the U.S.
    I'm stumped.

  4. #114
    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    Well obviously... But I'm looking for advantages for civilians - whether in the Palestinian territories, or in Israel, or in the U.S.

    It only provided an advantage for Trump, and that advantage was merely to maintain the support of his partisan political base here in the US. He never gave a damn about the consequences of his actions beyond their affect for him personally.

    That's the kind of person he is. That's what he's always been.
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  5. #115
    Flibbertigibbet Wonderer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    Well obviously... But I'm looking for advantages for civilians - whether in the Palestinian territories, or in Israel, or in the U.S.
    Spitballing here: 1) Symbolic affirmation of Israel's right to exist (and claim its own capital) and that the US has and will continue to have its back; 2) notice to the Palestinians that they don't get to call the shots and if they TRULY want a workable deal (ha!), Jerusalem isn't a bargaining chip.

    Israelis would be better able to answer this -- I do know that there appears to be a fair amount of support for this move by Israeli citizens -- at least the ones I know/know of (and according to several of the articles I've read on the topic.) I doubt there's a good deal of advantage in Palestinians' eyes -- at least not among those who don't believe Israel should exist at all (and that's more than a handful, as I understand it.)

    Something to ponder: If there ISN'T any advantage, why have we been promising/signaling the intent to do this for years (long before Trump)? If there ISN'T any advantage, why do many Israelis support the move? If there ISN'T any advantage, why are Chuck Schumer and other Dems (and non-fans of Trump) on board with it?
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  6. #116
    the "good" prag pragmatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderer View Post
    Spitballing here: 1) Symbolic affirmation of Israel's right to exist (and claim its own capital) and that the US has and will continue to have its back; 2) notice to the Palestinians that they don't get to call the shots and if they TRULY want a workable deal (ha!), Jerusalem isn't a bargaining chip.

    Israelis would be better able to answer this -- I do know that there appears to be a fair amount of support for this move by Israeli citizens -- at least the ones I know/know of (and according to several of the articles I've read on the topic.) I doubt there's a good deal of advantage in Palestinians' eyes -- at least not among those who don't believe Israel should exist at all (and that's more than a handful, as I understand it.)

    Something to ponder: If there ISN'T any advantage, why have we been promising/signaling the intent to do this for years (long before Trump)? If there ISN'T any advantage, why do many Israelis support the move? If there ISN'T any advantage, why are Chuck Schumer and other Dems (and non-fans of Trump) on board with it?

    (always gotta be the rabble-rouser, eh....??)

  7. #117
    Flibbertigibbet Wonderer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pragmatic View Post
    (always gotta be the rabble-rouser, eh....??)
    It's my middle name. (Wonderer Rabble-Rouser Jingleheimer Schmidt.)
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  8. #118
    the "good" prag pragmatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderer View Post
    It's my middle name. (Wonderer Rabble-Rouser Jingleheimer Schmidt.)
    With a little work we could turn that into a dirty acronym....
    Last edited by pragmatic; 16th May 2018 at 09:56 AM.
    Thanks from Wonderer and bajisima

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    It's the only real democracy in the ME and we gain nothing by playing nice with the Arabs.
    Station American troops in Israel, have combined military operations and stop pretending we are neutral brokers.

    Then again, I agreed with Hitler on his love of dogs.
    First, I'd question whether Israel's a real democracy. As long as they deny Palestinians a right of return, they're effectively excluding an entire class of voters. A democracy where a large block of people who should be voting are kept from voting isn't a real democracy.

    Second, I don't have an issue with the US recognizing West Jerusalem as Israel's capital, since that's simply a practical recognition of reality. But moving the embassy is an expense for the US, in terms of both the financial cost, and the cost in political capital (not just among Arab nations, but among the international community in general). It also invites a violent response against Americans. So, before I could support that, I'd need someone to explain to me what we're getting in exchange for all that? Sure, it makes the Israelis happy, but they should be the ones bending over backwards to please us, not vice versa. They owe us a huge amount already. Why take on this additional cost and risk for them? Why not just further delay moving the embassy, until at some point we can use it as a useful bargaining chip or a reward for good behavior?
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  10. #120
    Veteran Member Southern Dad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    Depends on whether or not you believe countries have the right to just take what they want and declare it theirs.
    Interesting. Are you saying that Israel doesn't have a right to exist and that land should be Palestine?

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