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Thread: I agree with Trump on Israel

  1. #121
    Veteran Member Southern Dad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Southern Dad does have a 'Might makes Right' philosophy.
    We haven't even discussed anything resembling might makes right, let alone have I given an opinion upon it.

  2. #122
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    We haven't even discussed anything resembling might makes right, let alone have I given an opinion upon it.
    You DON'T think Israel has a 'right' to the land they seized in the 1967 'Six Days War'?

  3. #123
    Veteran Member Southern Dad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    What are the advantages of having the embassy in Jerusalem?
    Tel Aviv and Jerusalem are relatively close together, roughly about an hour apart. Is it a real advantage being an hour closer to the seat of the government? Not really. What it is, is saying that we stand with the Israeli people and the government of Israel. It is following through on a promise that was so important that we codified it into law, then had three presidents not follow through on it. Either we recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel or we don't. Some people are so partisan that they just can't see this as a good thing, because President Trump was the one that did it.

  4. #124
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderer View Post
    Spitballing here: 1) Symbolic affirmation of Israel's right to exist (and claim its own capital) and that the US has and will continue to have its back; 2) notice to the Palestinians that they don't get to call the shots and if they TRULY want a workable deal (ha!), Jerusalem isn't a bargaining chip.
    1) This "symbolic affirmation does not provide an advantage. Neither does it provide a disadvantage. It in fact changes nothing.

    2) The Palestinians already know that, which is (one reason) why no workable deal has yet happened. Nothing new there, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderer View Post
    Something to ponder: If there ISN'T any advantage, why have we been promising/signaling the intent to do this for years (long before Trump)? If there ISN'T any advantage, why do many Israelis support the move? If there ISN'T any advantage, why are Chuck Schumer and other Dems (and non-fans of Trump) on board with it?
    Argument from ignorance. Surely you can do better. (I know, I know, your name is not Shirley....)

  5. #125
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    First, I'd question whether Israel's a real democracy. As long as they deny Palestinians a right of return, they're effectively excluding an entire class of voters. A democracy where a large block of people who should be voting are kept from voting isn't a real democracy.
    This does not make sense. The Palestinians have their own government they vote for - Abbas in the West Bank, Hamas in Gaza.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    Second, I don't have an issue with the US recognizing West Jerusalem as Israel's capital...
    Jerusalem is one city.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    [M]oving the embassy ... invites a violent response against Americans.
    So those who respond violently are not responsible for their actions?
    Thanks from Wonderer

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    This does not make sense. The Palestinians have their own government they vote for - Abbas in the West Bank, Hamas in Gaza.
    The Palestinians who want to return to their lands in Israel should be allowed to do so and should be allowed to vote in Israeli elections. Being able to vote for some other government in a ghetto to which Israel has confined them (or having no vote at all, if they're in a refugee camp elsewhere) is no substitute for being able to vote in their homeland.

    Jerusalem is one city.
    It's one city broken into two pieces, thanks to Israel's illegal occupation. If the US was going to recognize the Israeli capital, it ought to have recognized it as being West Jerusalem, while simultaneously recognizing East Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine.

    So those who respond violently are not responsible for their actions?
    Do you think something I said implied that?

  7. #127
    Flibbertigibbet Wonderer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    1) This "symbolic affirmation does not provide an advantage. Neither does it provide a disadvantage. It in fact changes nothing.

    2) The Palestinians already know that, which is (one reason) why no workable deal has yet happened. Nothing new there, either.
    That's why I acknowledged up front I was spitballing. AND why I would defer to the folks who actually live there. It's not an advantage to me personally. I support it because I support Israel and know Netanyahu was in favor of it.


    Argument from ignorance. Surely you can do better. (I know, I know, your name is not Shirley....)
    Wait - is that really an argument from ignorance? (I mean, setting aside the arguably fair assessment that I'm ignorant. )

  8. #128
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    It's one city broken into two pieces, thanks to Israel's illegal occupation.
    Was our occupation of Bagdad legal?

  9. #129
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    The Palestinians who want to return to their lands in Israel should be allowed to do so and should be allowed to vote in Israeli elections.
    Palestinians only want to kill.

  10. #130
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    The Palestinians who want to return to their lands in Israel should be allowed to do so and should be allowed to vote in Israeli elections.
    And how many of those people are alive now? And should we then confiscate the property from those who have it now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    Being able to vote for some other government in a ghetto to which Israel has confined them (or having no vote at all, if they're in a refugee camp elsewhere) is no substitute for being able to vote in their homeland.
    They are not confined to any ghetto.

    Besides, what you are talking about here is the eradication of Israel, and that is not an option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    It's one city broken into two pieces, thanks to Israel's illegal occupation.
    No, it is actually a single city, and there is no "illegal occupation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    Do you think something I said implied that?
    Yes. When you blame someone for "invit[ing] a violent response," you are taking responsibility away from the violent people and giving it to the non-violent ones.
    Thanks from Wonderer and pragmatic

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