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Thread: any suggestions on how to get through to Trump supporters?

  1. #41
    Junior Member Slartibartfast's Avatar
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    Am I the only one here that knows that every politician on the planet has/does/will talk bollox but their supporters lap it up?

    Are some honestly that green to believe Trump supporters are different to everyone else on the planet? Anyone who believes this, their IQ should be challenged.

  2. #42
    "Mr. Original". the watchman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slartibartfast View Post
    Am I the only one here that knows that every politician on the planet has/does/will talk bollox but their supporters lap it up?

    Are some honestly that green to believe Trump supporters are different to everyone else on the planet? Anyone who believes this, their IQ should be challenged.
    it's the way you keep falsely framing the argument. Again, it's not about just a belief. It's a belief in spite of objective evidence to the contrary of that they believe. Yes. There are extremist who latch on to candidates and fall into the "cult following" category. But, since you're making that argument, Trump lies about things all the time. You're not really showing similar examples of other politicians who exert the same influences over their supporters.

  3. #43
    Junior Member Slartibartfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the watchman View Post
    it's the way you keep falsely framing the argument. Again, it's not about just a belief. It's a belief in spite of objective evidence to the contrary of that they believe. Yes. There are extremist who latch on to candidates and fall into the "cult following" category. But, since you're making that argument, Trump lies about things all the time. You're not really showing similar examples of other politicians who exert the same influences over their supporters.
    Good luck.

    Go on Google and type in, "Obama lies". Then just give up several days reading all the links.
    Last edited by Slartibartfast; 30th May 2018 at 02:25 PM.
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  4. #44
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slartibartfast View Post
    Am I the only one here that knows that every politician on the planet has/does/will talk bollox but their supporters lap it up?

    Are some honestly that green to believe Trump supporters are different to everyone else on the planet? Anyone who believes this, their IQ should be challenged.
    Yes, they are different. Trump openly, wantonly violates every standard of behavior his supporters claim to want to see restored/promoted in our country. That can't be said about any previous president.

    He's not a leader. He's a destructive force for chaos and inflicts misery on us all, but moreso people of color and the poor.

    He's not a POTUS. He's the Grand Dragon of the KKK, and yet people like my niece can't wait for his next offensive action.

  5. #45
    Member Arkady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the watchman View Post
    so, we know that they resent being called names. Fair enough. We know that they sent Trump to the WH to shake things up. Fair enough. We know that they don't trust the media. Fair enough. But, just as a for instance, last night during a rally Trump told his supporters that it was a "fact" that the FBI infiltrated his campaign. The reaction of the crowd was to boo. That is not a "fact". It's a bald-faced lie. Yet, the crowd believed it simply because that's what Trump told them. How do candidates for office contend with a voter like that?

    Your thoughts?
    I find it harder to get through to Trump supporters than I did to GW Bush supporters, and I think the reason is, ironically, because Trump is so much worse. With Bush, I think there were decent people who were drawn to him because of a decent image he presented during his first presidential campaign. He was going to be a "compassionate conservative." He spoke sympathetically about the "mission fatigue" of our military, and spoke skeptically about nation building. He said he wanted us to be a "humble nation." He was open to ideas of immigration reform. His dedicated-family-man persona seemed like a breath of fresh air after years of Clinton's philandering. People also could have expected that, like his father, Bush would have been a pragmatist, willing to stand up to the conservative base when there was a compelling need (GHW Bush signed an upper-class tax hike to address run-away deficits, and was also a decent environmentalist by the standards of the time). They could also expect that he'd work with the coalition-building braintrust of his father's administration, which had navigated the invasion of Kuwait and the fall of the Soviet Union so well. Don't get me wrong -- I never fell for that spin. But I could see how some decent people did. And so when the real GW Bush started to appear, who was so different from the sales pitch, those decent people who had supported him could be reached. They saw the bait-and-switch.

    You can't similarly reach decent Trump supporters who are disillusioned for the simple reason that there were never any decent Trump supporters. He sold himself, from day one, as a raging racist, misogynist, and xenophobe. Whatever disappointments there may be as he abandons nearly all his populist economic promises don't matter, because that isn't what attracted anyone to him. He basically promised to be an enthusiastic leader for the Two Minute Hate, and he has followed through on that one promise. How do you get any Trump supporter to reconsider, when they're getting exactly what they voted for? How do you appeal to the better angels of their nature, when they had to murder those angels to vote for the guy in the first place?
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  6. #46
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    I find it harder to get through to Trump supporters than I did to GW Bush supporters, and I think the reason is, ironically, because Trump is so much worse. With Bush, I think there were decent people who were drawn to him because of a decent image he presented during his first presidential campaign. He was going to be a "compassionate conservative." He spoke sympathetically about the "mission fatigue" of our military, and spoke skeptically about nation building. He said he wanted us to be a "humble nation." He was open to ideas of immigration reform. His dedicated-family-man persona seemed like a breath of fresh air after years of Clinton's philandering. People also could have expected that, like his father, Bush would have been a pragmatist, willing to stand up to the conservative base when there was a compelling need (GHW Bush signed an upper-class tax hike to address run-away deficits, and was also a decent environmentalist by the standards of the time). They could also expect that he'd work with the coalition-building braintrust of his father's administration, which had navigated the invasion of Kuwait and the fall of the Soviet Union so well. Don't get me wrong -- I never fell for that spin. But I could see how some decent people did. And so when the real GW Bush started to appear, who was so different from the sales pitch, those decent people who had supported him could be reached. They saw the bait-and-switch.

    You can't similarly reach decent Trump supporters who are disillusioned for the simple reason that there were never any decent Trump supporters. He sold himself, from day one, as a raging racist, misogynist, and xenophobe. Whatever disappointments there may be as he abandons nearly all his populist economic promises don't matter, because that isn't what attracted anyone to him. He basically promised to be an enthusiastic leader for the Two Minute Hate, and he has followed through on that one promise. How do you get any Trump supporter to reconsider, when they're getting exactly what they voted for? How do you appeal to the better angels of their nature, when they had to murder those angels to vote for the guy in the first place?
    My only interpretation is that a majority of these supporters agree with him. As they said during the campaign, there were people who didnt admit to liking him because he was controversial. So I think now that he has won they are happy he won because their ideas are the same. There are some who are single issue and think solely of the courts but otherwise he says what they have been thinking all their lives.

  7. #47
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    My only interpretation is that a majority of these supporters agree with him. As they said during the campaign, there were people who didnt admit to liking him because he was controversial. So I think now that he has won they are happy he won because their ideas are the same. There are some who are single issue and think solely of the courts but otherwise he says what they have been thinking all their lives.
    There's the appeal of racism. It salves the hurt of every failed, envious, fearful white by telling them their own choices are not the reason why. It's narcotic in it's appeal.
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  8. #48
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    There's the appeal of racism. It salves the hurt of every failed, envious, fearful white by telling them their own choices are not the reason why. It's narcotic in it's appeal.
    We see that in Europe as well. Factory workers who are losing work feel left behind and voted for right wing politicians. Hungary is currently passing strict immigration reform so "jobs wont be stolen."
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  9. #49
    "Mr. Original". the watchman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slartibartfast View Post
    Good luck.

    Go on Google and type in, "Obama lies". Then just give up several days reading all the links.
    did Obama's polling remain steady regardless of what he did or said in office? Did he get more popular as a result of the media reporting negative stories about him? Why are you pretending as if Trump is just like every other president when you know very well that he's not? Isn't that the reason he was elected in the first place?
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  10. #50
    Member Arkady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    My only interpretation is that a majority of these supporters agree with him. As they said during the campaign, there were people who didnt admit to liking him because he was controversial. So I think now that he has won they are happy he won because their ideas are the same. There are some who are single issue and think solely of the courts but otherwise he says what they have been thinking all their lives.
    I think that's the key to understanding the seemingly bizarre impression, among Trump supporters, that the guy is honest. Surely, at some level, they must realize he lies more often and far more shamelessly than any other major politician. But I think what they're really saying is that he comes right out and says the stuff that they're sick of not feeling safe to say in polite company. It's like someone who has spent hours painfully holding in a fart at a dinner party, seeing some guy who just lets it rip loud and proud any time he wants. It's cathartic for them, with some added glee to watch the rest of us gag on the stench.

    I think those kinds of people imagine that all of use are barely stifling back repugnant ideas all the time, the way they are. So that's the kind of "honesty" they're referring to: not that he says things that are true, but that he doesn't censor the uglier aspects of his personality.

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