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Thread: any suggestions on how to get through to Trump supporters?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    There's the appeal of racism. It salves the hurt of every failed, envious, fearful white by telling them their own choices are not the reason why. It's narcotic in it's appeal.
    I see xenophobia the same way. I've met a number of bitter white guys who aren't doing well, economically, because of some bad choices they've made over the years. When most of us saw the transformation towards an information-based economy and so we worked on developing the skills that would be in demand in such an world, they took the easy way out and figured that just being a white dude with a strong back was going to be good enough for a solid middle-class life, the way it once was. When that doesn't work out, they look around for someone else to blame, which will include immigrants and competition from abroad. But, what I'd like to say to them is that if they find themselves losing out to someone who barely speaks English and probably doesn't even have the benefit of a high school education, then maybe it's time to step up their game, rather than wasting their breath whining.
    Last edited by Arkady; 31st May 2018 at 07:06 AM.
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  2. #52
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    I see xenophobia the same way. I've met a number of bitter white guys who aren't doing well, economically, because of some bad choices they've made over the years. When most of us saw the transformation towards an information-based economy and so we worked on developing the skills that would be in demand in such an world, they took the easy way out and figured that just being a white dude with a strong back was going to be good enough for a solid middle-class life, the way it once was. When that doesn't work out, they look around for someone else to blame, which will include immigrants and competition from abroad. But, what I'd like to say to them is that if they find themselves losing out to someone who barely speaks English and probably doesn't even have the benefit of a high school education, then maybe it's time to step up their game, rather than wasting their breath whining.
    I have found too that there is a culture thing going on. When I travel up in logging territory and see shacks without heat you have to think "hey its not far down to Boston to find new work." But they have this thing where, "my granddad did it, I did it, and so will my kids." We see it in steel and coal country too. I just dont get it. Why wouldn't you want your kids to do something safer? I met some fishermen in Gloucester a few years back and the pressure for their kids to get into fishing was huge. They were shamed into it. So when times get tough the whole area suffers and they have nothing to fall back on. Its surprising.

    I saw one of those roving reporters on MSNBC a bit back and they were up in Duluth, MN showing how that area was solid blue and now turning red. They asked why. The consensus was basically "the democrats keep wanting to train us, take away our guns, make us move and raise our kids differently and we are angry. We may not like republicans policies but at least they leave us alone to live." I think that hit the nail on the head in regards to these areas, dems want to move them forward while repubs are willing to leave them be. Interesting.
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  3. #53
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Media is partly to blame here. I knew decades ago when they allowed corporations to buy the news, we eventually would pay the price. Well here we are. Instead of giving Trump every second of free coverage during the campaign they should have given others equal time. They never did, it was 24/7 Trump and it still is. Every rally they are there. Then there is the rush to be first with "sources said" or "insiders claim" that often leaves them offering an apology. Look at that photo last weekend of the immigrant kids face down in cages. It was from 2014 and Trump ran with it, citing fake news. So now all over social media they think they are really lying. If you look at polling and stats people have become incredibly mistrusting, from our banks, to big pharma to the real news. Its sad but we could have all seen it coming years before Trump.
    You said it all, Baj. I have nothing to add.
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  4. #54
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    You said it all, Baj. I have nothing to add.
    Like your kitty avatar! I think having pleasant avatars these days is good for us alleviates our stress! Animals make us all smile. Doctors say even looking at pics lower our blood pressure and stress.
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by the watchman View Post
    so, we know that they resent being called names. Fair enough. We know that they sent Trump to the WH to shake things up. Fair enough. We know that they don't trust the media. Fair enough. But, just as a for instance, last night during a rally Trump told his supporters that it was a "fact" that the FBI infiltrated his campaign. The reaction of the crowd was to boo. That is not a "fact". It's a bald-faced lie. Yet, the crowd believed it simply because that's what Trump told them. How do candidates for office contend with a voter like that?

    Your thoughts?



    So you called them nazis, racists, deplorables, white trash, attacked them relentlessly and you want to get through to them now? that's funny, you guys are everything you think trump is and more.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    I have found too that there is a culture thing going on. When I travel up in logging territory and see shacks without heat you have to think "hey its not far down to Boston to find new work." But they have this thing where, "my granddad did it, I did it, and so will my kids." We see it in steel and coal country too. I just dont get it. Why wouldn't you want your kids to do something safer? I met some fishermen in Gloucester a few years back and the pressure for their kids to get into fishing was huge. They were shamed into it. So when times get tough the whole area suffers and they have nothing to fall back on. Its surprising.

    I saw one of those roving reporters on MSNBC a bit back and they were up in Duluth, MN showing how that area was solid blue and now turning red. They asked why. The consensus was basically "the democrats keep wanting to train us, take away our guns, make us move and raise our kids differently and we are angry. We may not like republicans policies but at least they leave us alone to live." I think that hit the nail on the head in regards to these areas, dems want to move them forward while repubs are willing to leave them be. Interesting.
    Yes, however, I think that people in such areas tend to want more than just to be left alone. Take coal country as an example. Coal mining jobs are practically economically obsolete between the collapse of coal in the face of dirt-cheap natural gas and the way the industry has been revamped so that almost no workers are needed. From an economic efficiency perspective, we should train these displaced workers in in-demand skills (e.g., nursing), and help to relocate them to areas with excess demand for labor (judging by low unemployment and high wages). But, they want to stay in place and hold onto their culture, even if there's no viable economic path for that. And that requires massive amounts of government welfare for their area -- both needs-based support directly to people, and all sorts of pork-barrel programs for the area.

    It's not just coal country, either. We have a lot of policies in this country built around preserving the agricultural character of regions, and propping up economically uncompetitive family farms and ranches. In fact, we heavily subsidize rural life in general -- for example, per vehicle-mile, it's far more expensive to maintain a rural bridge or roadway than one in a high traffic area, but we pay to do so. If every roadway were a toll road, with a fee tied to the building and maintenance expense, lots of rural communities would collapse, because the tolls for their roads were be prohibitively expensive, to the point that it just wouldn't be affordable to live there with the low wages in such areas. But, instead, most roads are covered by money that ultimately comes from gas taxes and so can be used to keep rural life cheap.

    So, although such people may flatter themselves to think that all they want is for government to leave them alone, it would be more accurate to say they want government to pay to keep their lifestyle viable in the face of changes in the world, but to make no demands on them.
    Last edited by Arkady; 31st May 2018 at 07:50 AM.
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Media is partly to blame here. I knew decades ago when they allowed corporations to buy the news, we eventually would pay the price. Well here we are.
    I agree. This involves changes in FCC rules dating back to the 1980's, and it's only gotten worse since then. Used to be there was a 7/7/7 rule--7AM/7FM/7TV stations could be owned by one entity--and only two in any one market. Now nearly everything is owned by just a handful of companies.

    Not much to be done about cable news except convince people that obsessing over the news and ruminating constantly on one perspective is unhealthy.

    The owners of anything will be interested in maximizing profit, so it's not really their fault--they're just made that way. I'm not sure a different operating philosophy (corporate paternalism?) would be better.
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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by the watchman View Post
    you're blaming "the left" for people believing Trump's bald-faced lies? Also, who are you referring to when you say "the left" anyway? People in Canada?
    I do not for one minute believe that poster is from Canada. Posts too much like a Trumpster.

    BTW,they are showing pictures of those kids in cages right now! With Armed Guards standing out side the bars.
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  9. #59
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Like your kitty avatar! I think having pleasant avatars these days is good for us alleviates our stress! Animals make us all smile. Doctors say even looking at pics lower our blood pressure and stress.
    That was my idea. I am so stressed that even my blood pressure is up. Never happened before. Not bad, but enough.

    Thank you.
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  10. #60
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    I agree. This involves changes in FCC rules dating back to the 1980's, and it's only gotten worse since then. Used to be there was a 7/7/7 rule--7AM/7FM/7TV stations could be owned by one entity--and only two in any one market. Now nearly everything is owned by just a handful of companies.

    Not much to be done about cable news except convince people that obsessing over the news and ruminating constantly on one perspective is unhealthy.

    The owners of anything will be interested in maximizing profit, so it's not really their fault--they're just made that way. I'm not sure a different operating philosophy (corporate paternalism?) would be better.
    Most of my family never watches. They have things to do, places to go.

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