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Thread: any suggestions on how to get through to Trump supporters?

  1. #61
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Icommunicate with a couple of Trump supporters regularly and there is no getting through to them. If you show them evidence of how and why they're wrong they dismiss it as fake news or it's something from one of those liberal college researchers. You can't debate with someone who doesn't accept certain known facts. Facts have a liberal bias.
    Last edited by Babba; 31st May 2018 at 08:11 AM.

  2. #62
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    Yes, however, I think that people in such areas tend to want more than just to be left alone. Take coal country as an example. Coal mining jobs are practically economically obsolete between the collapse of coal in the face of dirt-cheap natural gas and the way the industry has been revamped so that almost no workers are needed. From an economic efficiency perspective, we should train these displaced workers in in-demand skills (e.g., nursing), and help to relocate them to areas with excess demand for labor (judging by low unemployment and high wages). But, they want to stay in place and hold onto their culture, even if there's no viable economic path for that. And that requires massive amounts of government welfare for their area -- both needs-based support directly to people, and all sorts of pork-barrel programs for the area.

    It's not just coal country, either. We have a lot of policies in this country built around preserving the agricultural character of regions, and propping up economically uncompetitive family farms and ranches. In fact, we heavily subsidize rural life in general -- for example, per vehicle-mile, it's far more expensive to maintain a rural bridge or roadway than one in a high traffic area, but we pay to do so. If every roadway were a toll road, with a fee tied to the building and maintenance expense, lots of rural communities would collapse, because the tolls for their roads were be prohibitively expensive, to the point that it just wouldn't be affordable to live there with the low wages in such areas. But, instead, most roads are covered by money that ultimately comes from gas taxes and so can be used to keep rural life cheap.

    So, although such people may flatter themselves to think that all they want is for government to leave them alone, it would be more accurate to say they want government to pay to keep their lifestyle viable in the face of changes in the world, but to make no demands on them.
    Arkady, they do not want retraining, they want their old jobs . They even built a Prison to provide jobs. Could not get workers who passed drug tests.

    Right here in Dayton a German Auto Parts Company has huge Semis out on I 75 begging for help. Tool Shops are needing help so bad. There are Help Wanted signs in every window. A start,then they could move up. Community Colleges are offering all kinds of help, even working with 4 year Universities. A 2 year Degree can give you a good paycheck now.

    I wish I could explain what has happened to this lost generation.

    That is not to say all of them are like this, but many are. Especially your generation. They want some one to give them back their old life! It is not going to happen.
    Last edited by MaryAnne; 31st May 2018 at 08:36 AM.
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  3. #63
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Hellh0und View Post
    So you called them nazis, racists, deplorables, white trash, attacked them relentlessly and you want to get through to them now? that's funny, you guys are everything you think trump is and more.
    Nope. I have my faults but I am not an adulterer or a thief.

    Not a racist, either.
    Thanks from the watchman, MaryAnne and Babba

  4. #64
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Hellh0und View Post
    So you called them nazis, racists, deplorables, white trash, attacked them relentlessly and you want to get through to them now? that's funny, you guys are everything you think trump is and more.
    They can sense that they are losing control.

    They thought that those attacks would lead to trump being impeached. Now they want to sue for peace, knowing that the blue wave is drying to a trickle.

    It's a way so that they only lose 10 years of their plan, instead of losing the next 10 generations.

  5. #65
    "Mr. Original". the watchman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    They can sense that they are losing control.

    They thought that those attacks would lead to trump being impeached. Now they want to sue for peace, knowing that the blue wave is drying to a trickle.

    It's a way so that they only lose 10 years of their plan, instead of losing the next 10 generations.
    how would calling Trump supporters names lead to Trump being impeached?

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    Arkady, they do not want retraining, they want their old jobs . They even built a Prison to provide jobs. Could not get workers who passed drug tests.

    Right here in Dayton a German Auto Parts Company has huge Semis out on I 75 begging for help. Tool Shops are needing help so bad. There are Help Wanted signs in every window. A start,then they could move up. Community Colleges are offering all kinds of help, even working with 4 year Universities. A 2 year Degree can give you a good paycheck now.

    I wish I could explain what has happened to this lost generation.

    That is not to say all of them are like this, but many are. Especially your generation. They want some one to give them back their old life! It is not going to happen.
    It might be time for some tough love -- offer them retraining and relocation expenses, but if they don't want it, leave them to suffer. I don't think it's the job of the government to permanently prop up un-economic lifestyles, which is basically what it's doing when it just keeps shoveling good money after bad to support people in these areas left behind by economic developments.

  7. #67
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    I agree. This involves changes in FCC rules dating back to the 1980's, and it's only gotten worse since then. Used to be there was a 7/7/7 rule--7AM/7FM/7TV stations could be owned by one entity--and only two in any one market. Now nearly everything is owned by just a handful of companies.

    Not much to be done about cable news except convince people that obsessing over the news and ruminating constantly on one perspective is unhealthy.

    The owners of anything will be interested in maximizing profit, so it's not really their fault--they're just made that way. I'm not sure a different operating philosophy (corporate paternalism?) would be better.
    Yea I dont know the answer. I know some countries give funding to news programming so they dont need to look to profits or money as a means to survive. They also provide govt paid campaigning for elections. All of that made some sort of sense to me up until now. Nowadays I think its safe to say few Americans want the govt anywhere near the news.

  8. #68
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    Arkady, they do not want retraining, they want their old jobs . They even built a Prison to provide jobs. Could not get workers who passed drug tests.

    Right here in Dayton a German Auto Parts Company has huge Semis out on I 75 begging for help. Tool Shops are needing help so bad. There are Help Wanted signs in every window. A start,then they could move up. Community Colleges are offering all kinds of help, even working with 4 year Universities. A 2 year Degree can give you a good paycheck now.

    I wish I could explain what has happened to this lost generation.

    That is not to say all of them are like this, but many are. Especially your generation. They want some one to give them back their old life! It is not going to happen.
    I still have to wonder if our education system failed certain generations? I know when I was in school, we constantly were bombarded with stereotypical images, the white picket fence, football games, 2 cars, family vacations etc. The image that the factory bell sounded at 5pm and the workers were home for dinner and then off to play ball in the yard with the kids. That just doesnt happen that often anymore. So its possible that somehow they feel something happened to deny them that. Now they work several jobs and maybe cant make ends meet. I dont know but you are right it does seem to be with those younger than 55 or so.
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  9. #69
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    It might be time for some tough love -- offer them retraining and relocation expenses, but if they don't want it, leave them to suffer. I don't think it's the job of the government to permanently prop up un-economic lifestyles, which is basically what it's doing when it just keeps shoveling good money after bad to support people in these areas left behind by economic developments.
    Two years ago we hired a young woman who had just gotten her Bachelors Degree. She was from the south and had moved up here to New England to take a good job since her area had no opportunities and was poverty stricken. She had been the first to go to college in her family and was on her way, talented and eager. After a few months she told us she was quitting and moving back down to live with her parents. She said she couldnt stand living up here with heathens and would rather live on welfare the rest of her life than work up here. She defaulted on her student loans, and went back home where her parents welcomed her back. At that point about half of us felt sympathy and the other half were furious that she was probably indeed going to live on govt assistance for the rest of her life. It was eye opening.

  10. #70
    your better Rev. Hellh0und's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    Icommunicate with a couple of Trump supporters regularly and there is no getting through to them. If you show them evidence of how and why they're wrong they dismiss it as fake news or it's something from one of those liberal college researchers. You can't debate with someone who doesn't accept certain known facts. Facts have a liberal bias.


    Do you people hear yourselves?


    I do this everyday here to left wingers including you. I posted numerous facts about shootings, FACTS that you and others ignore. The media lying, is shown to you and your ilk and you refuse to accept it.


    Facts have no bias. Thats part of your problem

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