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Thread: What should be next for unions if Janus prevails vs. AFSCME?

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    Veteran Member Moorhuhn Wanted Champion Hollywood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    n That is a democrat lie. When you are forced to become a union member you have no control of what your dues are used for
    Oh, NOW are you going to claim that union members do NOT vote on their officials who make such decisions?

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    Member Robert Urbanek's Avatar
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    It would seem that almost everything a worker needs from a union could be achieved through legislation instead: pay levels, overtime rules, safe working conditions, pension protection, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    n That is a democrat lie.
    No, it's called Abood v. Detroit Board of Education.

    When you are forced to become a union member you have no control of what your dues are used for
    People around here typically recognize me as one of the most critical people against unions of anyone here. But I know a bit about what I'm talking about. Do you want to understand the facts, or do you want me to leave you alone so that you can remain ignorant?

    There are two types of dues. Financial core dues (mandatory in non-Right-To-Work states, voluntary in Right-To-Work states), and PAC dues, which have been 100% voluntary in all states for decades, which are spent to the virtually exclusive benefit of Democrats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Urbanek View Post
    It would seem that almost everything a worker needs from a union could be achieved through legislation instead: pay levels, overtime rules, safe working conditions, pension protection, etc.
    Technically, yes. And the funny thing is, even with unions, there is still often a pretty heavy reliance on legislation to establish all of those same things. Why? Because unions represent such a small share of the private sector that they have no real ability to ensure anything favorable toward labor in the private sector, so realistically there would need to a piece of legislation that establishes it. And with the public sector, compensation essentially becomes government policy, whether a union took part in negotiating it or not.

    Finally, all public sector bargaining agreements essentially have to be ratified and funded by some type of legislature, and nothing can compel a legislature to ratify and fund an agreement if they're set against it.

    So yeah, there's really nothing a union can uniquely do to ensure favorable compensation of labor that our government itself could not do. Elected legislative bodies hold the big stick when it comes to this. Historically, they just pretend they don't hold the big stick, because pretending they don't promotes labor peace and prevents too much unrest and disruption to services. If workers and unions are made to believe they really hold power that matches the power of our elected government itself, it tends to pacify them. In reality, it's not even close. The voting public (speaking through democratically elected governing bodies) are the ultimate bosses. But if governments feign being docile and tolerant of labor unions, intentionally go along with the charade that is public sector collective bargaining, and intentionally let unions enjoy the illusions of negotiating power against government, they tend not to act like as big of assholes as they would otherwise.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 4th June 2018 at 10:27 AM.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Urbanek View Post
    It would seem that almost everything a worker needs from a union could be achieved through legislation instead: pay levels, overtime rules, safe working conditions, pension protection, etc.
    Yes, because Republicans have a long history of caring about Americas working class......look how many times they have raised the minimum wage and passed legislation protecting workers when they are in power.....

  6. #46
    Veteran Member ptif219's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    Oh, NOW it's your claim you USED to be a union member!!!
    It is fact

  7. #47
    Veteran Member ptif219's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    Oh, NOW are you going to claim that union members do NOT vote on their officials who make such decisions?
    More trolling when you have nothing

  8. #48
    Veteran Member ptif219's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    No, it's called Abood v. Detroit Board of Education.



    People around here typically recognize me as one of the most critical people against unions of anyone here. But I know a bit about what I'm talking about. Do you want to understand the facts, or do you want me to leave you alone so that you can remain ignorant?

    There are two types of dues. Financial core dues (mandatory in non-Right-To-Work states, voluntary in Right-To-Work states), and PAC dues, which have been 100% voluntary in all states for decades, which are spent to the virtually exclusive benefit of Democrats.
    When I was in Wisconsin you were forced to join the union and pay dues. That is it. This needs to stop

  9. #49
    Ignorance Is Virtue BitterPill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    The dialogue here in this link seems very pro-union but without all the standard dishonest propaganda, and actually discusses objectively what overall strategies unions should be thinking about in response to an anticipated fully 'Right To Work' public sector. I'm not usually a fan of biased sources like In These Times, but this was an interesting read.

    In this case, After Janus, Should Unions Abandon Exclusive Representation?

    A few interesting paragraphs, of many:
    It is ironic you mention 'standard dishonest propaganda.'

  10. #50
    Ignorance Is Virtue BitterPill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    I'll point out this thread topic isn't "are unions good or are unions bad?" It's most definitely not that kind of thread. If that were the question, we know 99% of liberals will say "unions are good," 25% of conservatives will say "unions are bad," and 25% of conservatives will say "unions were good but have outlived their useful purpose." This thread is not about whether unions are good or bad or just past their prime.

    It's a thread that asks what unions should do assuming Janus prevails and the entire nation's public sector is Right To Work within the next month or two. Mainly it's a question of whether unions should become members-only or not.
    Perhaps this thread is about 'standard dishonest propaganda.'

    That's what I think, and I'm sticking to it.

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