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Thread: SC decides on same sex wedding cake

  1. #51
    Veteran Member ptif219's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebateDrone View Post
    The whole issue is not resolved. 7-2 ruling. Very narrow ruling.

    Justice Kennedy said the Colorado Human Rights commissioner was too harsh[hostile] to the baker's religious beliefs...and for that reason [and that reason only] this case [and this case only] favors the baker.

    Sets no precedent in all other discrimination cases on religious basis.
    Based on the first amendment of freedom of religion
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  2. #52
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Based on the first amendment of freedom of religion
    So you think it's perfectly fine for businesses discriminate against gays?

  3. #53
    Veteran Member ptif219's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    So you think it's perfectly fine for businesses discriminate against gays?
    I think a Christian should not be forced to go against his religious belief.

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
    Thanks from aboutenough

  4. #54
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    I think a Christian should not be forced to go against his religious belief.
    How does serving a gay person stop anyone from practicing their religion?
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
    This says it all:

    "The outcome of cases like this in other circumstances must await further elaboration in the courts, all in the context of recognizing that these disputes must be resolved with tolerance, without undue disrespect to sincere religious beliefs, and without subjecting gay persons to indignities when they seek goods and services in an open market,"

    That seems to be a perfectly acceptable line of reasoning unrelated to cakes.
    I agree, if a seller of services politely declines to sell what he or she is selling, that seller loses a potential sale, and if I'm confused, upset or suspicious as to why I was denied service, maybe I'll politely write something publicly, such as a review, expressing confusion and concern as to why I was seemingly arbitrarily denied service with no explanation. These kinds of things, polite, like polite public expression of opinion, will help keep businesses accountable, because they create room for competitors to step in and offer their own alternative in ways that promise something different or better.

    Especially in an age of internet and social media, there is virtually no excuse to drag something like a wedding cake through the courts and to the Supreme Court. In my opinion.

  6. #56
    Veteran Member ptif219's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    How does serving a gay person stop anyone from practicing their religion?
    It is condoning gay marriage which goes against his Church doctrine. If his church does not marry gays then the baker should not be forced to participate in it either

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    How does serving a gay person stop anyone from practicing their religion?
    From what I understand, this ruling was described as "narrow" because of the particular type of business someone who creates custom wedding cakes is in. In this case, the person was considered an artist, like someone who makes music or art or poetry, and the decision was such that those people cannot be commanded to produce something. A musician cannot be commanded to go put on a performance, whether at a gay wedding or anywhere else. An artist cannot be commanded to paint something.

    It's basic contracting for services, really. There's offer, sometimes counter-offer, sometimes multiple counteroffers, and acceptance or non-acceptance. Both sides have to agree. If one doesn't, there's no sale, and there's no need to drag the side that doesn't agree to court over it every time. There are limitations to being able to compel commerce.

  8. #58
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    From what I understand, this ruling was described as "narrow" because of the particular type of business someone who creates custom wedding cakes is in. In this case, the person was considered an artist, like someone who makes music or art or poetry, and the decision was such that those people cannot be commanded to produce something. A musician cannot be commanded to go put on a performance, whether at a gay wedding or anywhere else. An artist cannot be commanded to paint something.

    It's basic contracting for services, really. There's offer, sometimes counter-offer, sometimes multiple counteroffers, and acceptance or non-acceptance. Both sides have to agree. If one doesn't, there's no sale, and there's no need to drag the side that doesn't agree to court over it. There are limitations to being able to compel commerce.
    I understand how it was ruled. I was responding to ptif219 saying it goes against his religious beliefs to serve a gay person a wedding cake.

  9. #59
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    Sure is silence on this issue. The Bullies have gone in hiding. You know the ones that back the Supreme Court on everything. This was not even close 7-2 while I was expecting a one vote edge. I think I will go order a cake today and celebrate
    I just bought a new Cake Decorater

    Made a great French Vanilla one for Memorial Day.
    Last edited by MaryAnne; 4th June 2018 at 09:18 AM.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    I understand how it was ruled. I was responding to ptif219 saying it goes against his religious beliefs to serve a gay person a wedding cake.
    I see.

    From my perspective, it doesn't matter how weak the excuse "it goes against my religion" sounds. I mean think about this, even if an artist is an extreme racist, and comes right out and says the only reason he won't paint me a painting at my request is because he hates my race, I still shouldn't have a court case against him. Because the only way I could win would involve a decision that apparently lets people command a performance out of an artist and that artists basically have no right to refuse. It's impractical to have a procedural structure that attempts to examine every motive for denial of service, when it comes to these "artists" or anyone else whose work is contract/commission (vs., say, retail).

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