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Thread: Always a Dem until 2016

  1. #101
    Shut up and vote Addiction Solitaire Champion, Double Deuce Champion, Queen Jewels Champion, Ray Ray Shuffle Champion, Twins Champion, Blow Up: Arcade Champion, Bunch - Time Trial Champion, Znax Champion, Zoo Keeper Champion, Sobics School Champion, Swap a Smiley Champion, Makos Champion, Dino Drop Champion, Flower Frenzy Champion, Some Puzzle Champion, Funny Bubbles Champion, CubeZ Champion, Dinky Smash Champion, Fun Fun Animals Champion, Fruit Fabriek Champion, Raft Wars Champion, Rainbow Monkey RunDown Champion, Raft Wars Champion, Crime Puzzle Champion Blueneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jets View Post
    Agreed. She is not liberal. That said, her positions on the issues were not the only reason I did not support her.
    Were you resigned to the likelihood she would win with or without your vote? What I mean is, if you thought that Trump could win, would you have changed your vote?

    Same question for @Frecks1710
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  2. #102
    Veteran Member bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frecks1710 View Post
    I would like your opinion...civilly, of course. I have been a registered Dem and always voted that way. Then this past election I left the party. For the very first time! I was just so unhappy with Hillary...I didn't want any part of her or her Foundation. I had hoped for "a refreshing change." I am not sure just how refreshing that change has been! Surely, there are many mistakes, but I do not feel POTUS or the Republicans are ALL wrong as the left believes. I do know a lot of people did the same exact thing I did. In fact, I think the percentage of disgruntled, disappointed, frustrated Dems helped to bring Trump into office. I am seriously wondering just how the Democratic party can win myself back and the others? I still have the same values I always have had. I am truly not a Republican; but neither am I on the far left. I would like to hear your response.
    I really wish I could give you some advice. but, I lost my illusions of "party loyalty" long ago. too much money involved for me to trust either of the major parties - and little chance any of the minor parties have a chance. good luck, but you are certainly not alone in your thoughts.
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  3. #103
    the "good" prag pragmatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueneck View Post
    Were you resigned to the likelihood she would win with or without your vote? What I mean is, if you thought that Trump could win, would you have changed your vote?

    Same question for Frecks.
    Was personally rather certain she (Hillary) was going to win the General Election. (and living in Illinois, my vote wasn't going to make much difference either way.)

    Trump's victory was a shock to most folks....
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  4. #104
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    After talking to my other daughters, it turns out that my middle daughter said she did vote for HRC but just wanted to bust my chops a bit.

  5. #105
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Just a note about my friend Frecks:

    I encouraged her to post a serious thread which she did even though her stomach bothered her from nerves about doing it.
    She feels more comfortable with general human interest stuff and feels that she doesn't know enough facts to take a dip in the deep end of the pool.

    I told her to stop worrying and just dive in and I'm proud of her for posting this topic which is bringing out some good/thoughtful posts.

    Keep up the good work Frecks!!
    Last edited by Devil505; 11th June 2018 at 07:44 AM.

  6. #106
    Frecks1710 Frecks1710's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Just a note about my friend Frecks:

    I encouraged her to post a serious thread which she did even though her stomach bothered her from nerves about doing it.
    She feels more comfortable with general human interest stuff and feels that she doesn't know enough facts to take a dip in the deep end of the pool.

    I told her to stop worrying and just dive in and I'm proud of her for posting this topic which is bringing out some good/thoughtful posts.

    Keep up the good work Frecks!!
    I just want to thank you, Devil, for being such a good friend and encouraging me. Each baby step I take in this lion like (to me) political arena, is a step in the right direction. I do so want to expand my mind. This is the right place to do so! Thanks again!!!!
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  7. #107
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frecks1710 View Post
    I just want to thank you, Devil, for being such a good friend and encouraging me. Each baby step I take in this lion like (to me) political arena, is a step in the right direction. I do so want to expand my mind. This is the right place to do so! Thanks again!!!!
    Just do EXACTLY what I tell you and you'll be fine!!

    Works for everyone else on this forum!! lol
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    It's unfair that Hillary has been blamed for something her husband did, namely NAFTA. But you're right. People did blame her for that and were afraid of TPP. How you think that Sanders was the more believable candidate is beyond me, though.
    I can't think of a less believable person on the issue of trade and progressive values than Hillary Clinton.

    Honestly, what has he ever actually accomplished?
    This isn't a "let's make fun of Bernie to make Hillary look better" thread.

    The Democrats are very good at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, but I hope you weren't one who voted in a swing state and gave Trump the presidency.
    I lived in Alaska in 2016. Regardless of who I voted for, it was absolutely meaningless.

    Whatever Hillary's and the Democrat's faults are, they aren't the dumpster fire Donald Trump and the Republicans are.
    This also isn't a "let's chastise Republicans to make Hillary look better" thread. I have nothing to gain by trashing Hillary. I'm trying to lend perspective into the mindset of 50-something union workers in midwest states who turned out for Trump more than any other Republican Presidential candidate since Reagan when he won by a ridiculous landslide in 1984. Trade and protectionism have been their hot buttons and this has been directly fueled by labor union rhetoric. They're convinced tariffs and protectionism will protect their jobs and protect Big Labor. Based on how things have gone so far, they will probably vote for Trump again.
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  9. #109
    Human Bean KnotaFrayed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    But of course. I realize she is poison to the Democratic party, and I just as assuredly know that it is through no fault of her own. Her policy was sound, her mind was sound, and she would have made a good president. Now we're on the highway to hell, but that's fine, too.

    Elections have consequences. I just wish we hadn't had to follow down the Nazi Germany path while everybody made their motherfucking point.

    And as long as that's what people think and how people feel? We're almost assured to do it again in 2020.

    Kind of glad I'm this age. I shouldn't have to live through over much of the hellscape.
    Let's not forget that HRC was the most qualified person running, if only from the diversity and the level of her positions of experience in government, which is distinctly a different animal than a business and for what should be, obvious reasons.

    She is also a woman. If people believe bigotry, subtle or otherwise, came out of America's woodwork when the first President with a white mother and a black father was elected, (other than a President with two white parents) at that point 232 years after Thomas Jefferson penned "all men are created equal", then you have to believe men who are frightened by intelligent, powerful women (note that it took 50 years AFTER it became illegal to deny people the right to vote based on their skin color, before women gained a right to vote) along with those who were political opponents (foreign and domestic - Russia because for all some want to claim she was in bed with them, she helped slap sanctions on them) of HRC, quietly, subtly, even subliminally, voted against her based specifically, on her gender being a factor.

    As others have said, with regard to other discrimination. Those wondering why certain groups of people, based on things like gender, race, sexual orientation and more, draw attention to their group with regard to rights, might stop to think how fortunate they are they don't have to do the same (fight for equal rights).

    Having noted decades of attacks on the Cintons in recognition that political opponents are naturally going to attack opponents, I also noted what to me, was an increase in not just dirty politics, but an almost desperation by my former political party (having usurped what was once more of a GOP) to stoop to almost any level to try to bring down any political opponent, including outright lying and hoping in those lies, to pick up support for them from the cumulative effect of catching a few at a time, but enough to eek out a win, when added all up. The 2016 election was NOT a landslide (another lie) for Trump, in any sense of the word and the suggestion totally ignored that in the 5 times in the history of this nation that a President did not win the popular vote and the EC, NONE lost the popular vote by anywhere NEAR the number Trump lost it by.

    It seems clear to me where the "fake" and alternate reality is coming from, as well as the obsession with going after the Clintons (by no means perfect people, but not worthy of the all the attempts to bring them down, especially in a relative and equitable sense to those who have done far worse, if only measured on the allegation scale).

    The propaganda (alternative realities that ignore the facts) smear tactics of the neo republican party, with or without the assistance (solicited or unsolicited, collusion or no collusion, hidden "blackmail" or business deals, potential deals or not) of foreign powers has worked for the neo republican party, if only just barely, but one only need to just barely meet the requirements for winning, to place themselves in the positions of power that could them be used to block their or make it harder for that opposition to ever be able to balance out that power.

    The Democrats can either use the same tactics and propaganda in reverse or they can present legitimate arguments with facts and figures for why Americans do not want those using smear tactics and floating alternative "facts" and "realities" in places of power, for what should be, obvious reasons. The latter would mean being tough on Democrats that try to float lies about their opponents or do the same things they would attack their opponents for doing. In other words, get Americans to trust that they truly are a party that does not want to win by floating false stories about their opponents (like the neo republicans do (show examples of how they have) they want to win on a record of turning around the messes left behind when (how many times tried) trickle down "VOODOO" economics, remove regulations, allow all the crooks and liars to rape and pillage all they like, pump up values with hot air to the point it all pops.

    They might also discuss how there are people who are never going to put truth, before their political party and no matter how many facts and figures you place in front of them, they're going to ignore them in favor of someone they believe is going to help them, ironically. even if all the evidence shows how they won't be helped, but hurt. The trick would be to learn what MIGHT or WOULD make those people recognize the truth about people exploiting them and their confidence, for a vote and not because the person has any interest in helping anyone, beyond saying what they need to say, to get their vote. The problem is, how to get people to trust those revealing the truth, instead of those trying to cover it up. What sorts of tools can be put out there that people can use on their own (so they aren't reliant of others that could potentially be deceiving them and build trust in those tools to root out lies and liars.
    Last edited by KnotaFrayed; 11th June 2018 at 08:52 AM.

  10. #110
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    The "Truth" is the GOP is waging war against middle and lower class Americans and they are winning!
    Let them keep control of Congress and they will finish us off next year!

    Fuck the entire GOP!

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