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Thread: A sudden realization

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havelock View Post
    We'll see in a year or two, won't we?
    Yes we will and that doesn't change all the successes we have seen over the last 2 years.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
    It happened to Obama
    It happened to Hillary
    It will happen to the next leading Democratic Presidential candidate.

    It is politics, republican style.

  3. #43
    Chaos in fourteen lines Minotaur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havelock View Post
    Two points: Okay, maybe three…

    First, while it’s true that all politicians invite their supporters to condemn “the bad guys” in an effort to gin up greater enthusiasm and to paint themselves as virtuous and sympathetic by contrast, the Republicans have over the last 40-50 years come to rely on this technique more and more heavily. It has really taken off since Bill Clinton, in their eyes, “stole” George H.W. Bush’s second term and Newt Gringrich took over the House with his “raze the city and rule the ruins” philosophy. Hillary was associated with Bill Clinton’s “illegitimate” presidency, of course; a lot of conservatives saw her at the time as an overly-ambitious, insufficiently demure “feminist” harpy. Thus, we hear incessantly about her “baggage.” That dates back to the ‘90s, eh?

    Then of course she actually became a successful politician in her own right. That just confirmed all of the negative feelings that a core group of Republicans already had about her. So, as a presidential candidate she started off with a history and a deep reservoir of animosity among a party that offers little these days apart from anger, jeremiads, appeals to tribal instincts, and empty promises of simple fixes to complex problems that never seem to require any significant work or sacrifice on the part of “real Americans.”

    Second, as Blueneck pointed out above, the Republicans knew for approximately eight years – and certainly for four years – that Hillary was the likely Democratic nominee in 2016. So, for years they focused all of their efforts on painting her as corrupt, incompetent, careless, unhealthy, uncaring, snobbish, grasping, greedy, shrewish, debauched, unwomanly, ugly, you name it… Remember how Benghazi was all Obama’s fault at first? How he supposedly was watching the video of the events unfolding and ordered rescue forces to “stand down...?” How he ordered Susan Rice to lie about the video...? All of that went away as soon as the election was over and then Benghazi was all Hillary Clinton’s fault – and we had to have Congressional hearing after hearing about it for the next three years. The residual effects of a negative PR campaign such as that is going to linger for a while no matter what.

    By the way, yes, it was stupid of Hillary to set up that private email server; and despite her protests it seems likely that she knew what she was doing and it was at least as much about having and keeping control of her electronic correspondence as it was about convenience. She was her own worst enemy in that instance and it probably cost her the Presidency. Whether it should have is another question. We know after an investigation that she wasn’t negligent or careless with classified materials, no more so than previous Secretaries of State in any case. She shouldn’t have done it, and the evolution of technology made that a lot clearer in 2016 than it was even in 2008. But no real harm came of it. And if you’ve been relentlessly smeared in one way or another for a couple of decades, well, maybe that makes your desire to keep your cards as close to your vest as possible a bit more understandable.

    And of course now we see many of the same people who though Hillary should be doing hard time in the federal penn for putting state secrets at risk pooh poohing Donald Trumps illegal use of a private cell phone for official communications. So no, it was never really about state security, was it?

    Finally, critically, in order to stick with the tribe and vote for someone as plainly and dangerously incompetent and unsuitable as Donald Trump for President, a good many voters had to truly believe that Hillary was the evil she-beast that the Republican propaganda made her out to be. As Trump’s administration flounders, these folks need to double down on Hillary hate in order to keep convincing themselves that they only did what they had to do. We are seeing this a lot on this very forum, no?

    So, unfortunately, we can expect to hear a lot more talk over the next two to six years about how horrible Hillary was and about how so many people felt there was really no choice but to vote for Trump and about how therefore Trump’s failures are really all the fault of the Democratic party for failing to nominate a decent candidate in 2016.

    Cheers.
    Well said. I can only add two points to this:

    1. When Hillary ran against Obama republicans swore she was the best candidate and they would vote for her if she won the primary. They used her as they used Bernie in the last election.

    2. The switch from Benghazi blaming from Obama to Hillary also coincided with Hillary's massive favorability polling as SOS. At that time she polled higher than any other Secretary of State in the 60 plus percentile. She still holds that record.

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  4. #44
    Inside Your Heads syrenn's Avatar
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    its not much different then


    regan.... boooooo
    bush.... boooooooo

    and that being said i am sure trump will eclipse them all.


    hillary put herself out there as grist for the mill..... sucks to be her, a dog along with the rest of them.
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  5. #45
    Inside Your Heads syrenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
    It happened to Obama
    It happened to Hillary
    It will happen to the next leading Democratic Presidential candidate.

    It is politics, republican style.
    it happened to regan
    it happened to bush
    it happened to baby bush
    it is happening to trump

    it will happen to the next leading republican presidential candidate.

    it is politics, democratic style.
    Thanks from John T Ford

  6. #46
    Chaos in fourteen lines Minotaur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by syrenn View Post
    it happened to regan
    it happened to bush
    it happened to baby bush
    it is happening to trump

    it will happen to the next leading republican presidential candidate.

    it is politics, democratic style.
    Actually no. I disagree. I'm not talking about the usual back and forth but about the full onslaught of overt lying and manipulation that republicans have perfected. Not trying to insult as this is not a hidden secret.
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  7. #47
    Junior Member Slartibartfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    This is not about whether she runs or not. I hope she doesn't. I hope no member of the gray gang does. This is about bringing her into every conversation, every thread, it's like HRC Tourette Syndrome.

    And maybe a small part of it is attempting to get under a lib's skin. That'd be a shit way to live, but i digress. It still comes back to "What are you doing and why."

    The fact that "getting under a lib's skin" is doing severe and lasting damage to this country is a whole nother thread entirely.
    I suppose people drag up Hillary for the same reasons others drag up Trump, they dislike that person and to balance arguments. People have this crazy notion that some can be brought up and some can't depending if they won a presidential campaign etc.., apparently job status makes a difference.

  8. #48
    Junior Member Slartibartfast's Avatar
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    If the Dems run Hillary, they obviously don't take politics seriously and they don't wish to win.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slartibartfast View Post
    If the Dems run Hillary, they obviously don't take politics seriously and they don't wish to win.
    How can anyone think the Democrats take politics seriously now?

    How does any normal thinking person think having an anti-American, pro-illegal, hate all white folks platform in any way will win elections?

  10. #50
    Inside Your Heads syrenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
    Actually no. I disagree. I'm not talking about the usual back and forth but about the full onslaught of overt lying and manipulation that republicans have perfected. Not trying to insult as this is not a hidden secret.

    yes it is the very same thing. Liberals are still whining about past conservatives so it is no different.

    hillary is a dog just like all the others. She put herself out there as grist for the mill.... suck it up.
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