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Thread: Obama and McCain - flip-flop, flip-flop

  1. #1
    Defensor

    Obama and McCain - flip-flop, flip-flop

    Obama and McCain - flip-flop, flip-flop - The Boston Globe

    THERE IS no "straight talk." There isn't "a different kind of politics." There are just two men who really want to be president.

    In their zeal to win the White House, Barack Obama and John McCain already own enough flip-flops to hang out comfortably in Jimmy Buffett's "Margaritaville," right next to John Kerry and Mitt Romney.

    Obama, a longtime advocate for public financing, just announced that he would opt out of the public financing system for the general election. In a statement of breathtaking chutzpah, Obama blamed his decision on Republicans. Meanwhile, he's the one with the fund-raising advantage, including pivotal backing from MoveOn.org, which isn't bound by public spending limits and is already running an anti-McCain ad.

    The Democrat who promises change is demonstrating the capacity to embrace an age-old political premise: cave, when necessary.

    Obama did it most famously with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. He was against cutting the controversial minister loose until he was for it. He was also against wearing a flag pin as a knee-jerk symbol of patriotism until he put one on as a knee-jerk symbol of patriotism.

    Striking at the heart of Obama's message of inclusion, campaign volunteers last week barred two Muslim women from sitting behind the podium at an Obama rally in Detroit. They apparently wanted to prevent the women's headscarves from appearing in photographs with the candidate.The campaign apologized for the volunteers' actions, saying "This is of course not the policy of the campaign. It is offensive and counter to Obama's commitment to bring Americans together."

    On foreign policy, Obama went from stating that he would meet, without preconditions, with the president of Iran, to saying he would meet "with the appropriate Iranian leaders at a time and place of my choosing - if and only if - it can advance the interests of the United States."

    On personnel, Obama put James A. Johnson, chairman of the Federal National Mortgage Association, in charge of vetting potential running mates. Then he quickly dropped him in the aftermath of news reports that Johnson received favorable deals on loans from the same mortgage lender that Obama criticized.

    For Obama, it all adds up to politics as very usual. But, McCain's flip-flops represent an even bigger affront to the straight talk he promises voters.

    As a presidential candidate, McCain now opposes his own immigration plan. He backs the Bush tax cuts he once opposed with contempt. While McCain presents himself as a maverick feared by lobbyists and special interests, his campaign has many ties to both and includes staffers who were once lobbyists.

    Last week, the Republican called for lifting the moratorium on offshore drilling, a dramatic contrast with his strong support for upholding the moratorium during his 2000 bid for the Republican nomination.

    A former prisoner of war, who suffered torture in Vietnam, McCain has called for the US detention center in Guantanamo Bay to be closed and for torture to be banned. Last week, he criticized the US Supreme Court for "one of the worst decisions in the history of this country" after the court ruled that detainees should be allowed to challenge their detentions in US courts.

    McCain has also been trying to distance himself even further from an earlier comment that it "would be fine with me" if the US military stayed in Iraq "for a hundred years," a remark he qualified at the time with the condition that Americans were not being injured or killed.

    Meanwhile, McCain is blasting Obama for opting out of public financing. But as Media Matters for America reports, McCain is being asked by federal elections officials to show that he did not use the promise of public money to obtain a $4 million loan to kickstart his once faltering presidential campaign. Doing so would be disingenuous from a candidate who is routinely described as a champion of campaign finance reform.

    Perhaps its best to get past the marketing slogans, sooner rather that later. Let voters strip illusion from reality in this campaign.


    As they are swiftly finding out, principle is the first casualty in the war to be president.
    This country is so screwed regardless of which one of these unprincipled losers takes over. :dunno:

  2. #2
    Bourne

    Re: Obama and McCain - flip-flop, flip-flop

    It's just politics. Of course they'll adapt their positions to gain the electorates favor. Either candidate will do a fine job as President.

    At least we no longer hear about that political loon Ron Paul, but then he never was a serious candidate.

  3. #3
    Defensor

    Re: Obama and McCain - flip-flop, flip-flop

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourne View Post
    :blah:
    It's called flip-flopping, which is a nicer way of saying DISHONESTY.

  4. #4
    Bourne

    Re: Obama and McCain - flip-flop, flip-flop

    Quote Originally Posted by Defensor View Post
    It's called flip-flopping, which is a nicer way of saying DISHONESTY.
    Odd, nothing about dishonesty in the definition...



    Main Entry: flip–flop Pronunciation: \ˈflip-ˌfläp\ Function: noun Date: 1600 1: the sound or motion of something flapping loosely2 a: a backward handspring b: a sudden reversal (as of policy or strategy)3: a usually electronic device or a circuit (as in a computer) capable of assuming either of two stable states4: a rubber sandal loosely fastened to the foot by a thong
    — flip–flop intransitive verb


  5. #5
    Defensor

    Re: Obama and McCain - flip-flop, flip-flop

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourne View Post
    Odd, nothing about dishonesty in the definition...
    Yeah, I know the dictionary just puts the raw information out there. It requires functioning brain cells to interpret it and put 2 and 2 together.

  6. #6
    Bourne

    Re: Obama and McCain - flip-flop, flip-flop

    Quote Originally Posted by Defensor View Post
    Yeah, I know the dictionary just puts the raw information out there. It requires functioning brain cells to interpret it and put 2 and 2 together.
    So once a candidate takes a specific position on any issue they should never change that position? You're effectively saying a candidate is being dishonest by adopting a potentially improved and more effective improved position.

    Here's a definition that describes such an attitude...



    Main Entry: goofy Pronunciation: \ˈgü-fē\ Function: adjective Inflected Form(s): goof·i·er; goof·i·est Date: 1921 : being crazy, ridiculous, or mildly ludicrous

  7. #7
    Defensor

    Re: Obama and McCain - flip-flop, flip-flop

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourne View Post
    So once a candidate takes a specific position on any issue they should never change that position? You're effectively saying a candidate is being dishonest by adopting a potentially improved and more effective improved position.

    Here's a definition that describes such an attitude...
    Changing position is not the same thing as flip-flopping for political gain, which is dishonesty.

  8. #8
    Bourne

    Re: Obama and McCain - flip-flop, flip-flop

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bourne
    :blah:
    Quote Originally Posted by Defensor View Post
    It's called flip-flopping, which is a nicer way of saying DISHONESTY.
    Care to refer me to the post by me where I used the quoted emoticon without any text? I never use emoticons.

    You speak of dishonesty when you made up that quote by me.

    Your dishonest post is reported and I'm here wasting my time with a liar.

  9. #9
    Defensor

    Re: Obama and McCain - flip-flop, flip-flop

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourne View Post
    Care to refer me to the post by me where I used the quoted emoticon without any text? I never use emoticons.

    You speak of dishonesty when you made up that quote by me.
    Ever heard of Ockham's Razor? Just applied it to your post. But go ahead and run away from facing the fact that your candidates are professional liars.

    Your dishonest post is reported and I'm here wasting my time with a liar.
    Reported? As in, whining to the mods when you lose a debate? Standard Bourne escape tactic.

  10. #10
    Bourne

    Re: Obama and McCain - flip-flop, flip-flop

    Quote Originally Posted by Defensor View Post
    Reported? As in, whining to the mods when you lose a debate? Standard Bourne escape tactic.
    Get used to it or clean up your act. You criticize Obama and McCain as being dishonest while your behavior lying about a quote is the very definition of dishonesty. Hopefully the moderator's will soundly deal with you.

    I don't debate liars and cheats so we're done here.

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