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Thread: The Founders wanted a strong central govt.

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    Senior Member zitiboy's Avatar
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    The Founders wanted a strong central govt.

    ...and federal involvement in commerce.

    excerpt: "the Right’s narrative holds that the Framers of the Constitution were hostile to a strong central government (for anything but national defense), rejected a federal role in addressing the nation’s economic problems (leaving that to the private sector), and supported a system in which the states were very powerful.

    None of these points are true, of course, at least not for the Constitution. They were true for the Articles of Confederation, which governed the original 13 states from 1777 to 1787. But the Framers, especially James Madison and George Washington, came to view the Articles as ineffectual and dangerous.


    In Federalist Paper No. 14, Madison explained how the Commerce Clause could help the young nation overcome some of its problems with communications and access to interior lands.

    “[T]he union will be daily facilitated by new improvements,” Madison wrote. “Roads will everywhere be shortened, and kept in better order; accommodations for travelers will be multiplied and meliorated; an interior navigation on our eastern side will be opened throughout, or nearly throughout the whole extent of the Thirteen States.

    “The communication between the western and Atlantic districts, and between different parts of each, will be rendered more and more easy by those numerous canals with which the beneficence of nature has intersected our country, and which art finds it so little difficult to connect and complete.”

    The building of canals, as an argument in support of the Commerce Clause and the Constitution, further reflects the pragmatic – and commercial – attitudes of key Founders. In 1785, two years before the Constitutional Convention, George Washington established the Potowmack Company, which began digging canals to extend navigable waterways westward where he and other Founders had invested in Ohio and other undeveloped lands.

    Thus, the idea of involving the central government in major economic projects – a government-business partnership to create jobs and profits – was there from the beginning. Madison, Washington and other early American leaders saw the Constitution as creating a dynamic system so the young country could grow and compete with rival economies around the world.

    Ironically, given today’s furor over the Commerce Clause and the Affordable Care Act, Madison considered the grant of power to Congress to regulate interstate commerce one of the Constitution’s least controversial elements."

    Read the whole article at...

    Romney’s Upside-Down Constitution | Consortiumnews

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    No I think they wanted a balanced government with checks and balances including giving states rights separate from the Federal Government. If they wanted a very strong central government they would have given states no rights at all.

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    Senior Member zitiboy's Avatar
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    Since you didn't read the article, you don't have any cred to comment.

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    99% Orwell Huxley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justoneman View Post
    No I think they wanted a balanced government with checks and balances including giving states rights separate from the Federal Government. If they wanted a very strong central government they would have given states no rights at all.
    Some people are unable to fathom the idea that we have both.....a strong central government and states rights.

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    Senior Member zitiboy's Avatar
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    The thing is, so many on the right claim the fed govt isn't more powerful than the state govt's, according to the constitution, and that's simply not true. Neither is the idea that the founders only wanted the fed to fund the military, the commerce clause by Madison is a case in point.

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    USMB Roshi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zitiboy View Post
    The thing is, so many on the right claim the fed govt isn't more powerful than the state govt's, according to the constitution, and that's simply not true. Neither is the idea that the founders only wanted the fed to fund the military, the commerce clause by Madison is a case in point.
    How is it not true? It clearly states that any powers not SPECIFICALLY given to the fed in the constitution, are reserved for the states. There's really not much in there for the fed.
    The commerce clause is clearly written, and if you read it, it clearly shows just how misrepresented and applied it is in current day.

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    Senior Member Moorhuhn Wanted Champion Hollywood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justoneman View Post
    No I think they wanted a balanced government with checks and balances including giving states rights separate from the Federal Government. If they wanted a very strong central government they would have given states no rights at all.
    He said strong. He did not say "very strong" or "all powerful". If the states had been given NO power that would have mADE THE FEDERAL GOVT. ALL POWERFUL. (caps key stuck)
    Correct?

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    Blue Dog Democrat Jets's Avatar
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    From the article:

    The Musket Mandate

    The pragmatic Founders also saw no problem in mandating Americans to buy private products, despite the insistence of today’s Republicans that such a mandate has never been enacted in U.S. history, before the Affordable Care Act’s mandate on uninsured Americans to buy health insurance (with financial help from the government).

    In 1792, just four years after ratification of the U.S. Constitution, Madison and Washington supported the Militia Acts, which mandated that all white men of fighting age obtain their own muskets and related equipment so they could participate in armed militias. Madison was a member of the Second Congress, which passed the law, and Washington was the First President, who signed it
    .

    The author is using a flawed analogy. When Congress passed the Militia acts the Senate was chosen by the state governments. If the majority of states did not want this bill to become law it would not have.

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    King Obama is a traitor! michaelr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zitiboy View Post
    ...and federal involvement in commerce.

    excerpt: "the Right’s narrative holds that the Framers of the Constitution were hostile to a strong central government (for anything but national defense), rejected a federal role in addressing the nation’s economic problems (leaving that to the private sector), and supported a system in which the states were very powerful.

    None of these points are true, of course, at least not for the Constitution. They were true for the Articles of Confederation, which governed the original 13 states from 1777 to 1787. But the Framers, especially James Madison and George Washington, came to view the Articles as ineffectual and dangerous.


    In Federalist Paper No. 14, Madison explained how the Commerce Clause could help the young nation overcome some of its problems with communications and access to interior lands.

    “[T]he union will be daily facilitated by new improvements,” Madison wrote. “Roads will everywhere be shortened, and kept in better order; accommodations for travelers will be multiplied and meliorated; an interior navigation on our eastern side will be opened throughout, or nearly throughout the whole extent of the Thirteen States.

    “The communication between the western and Atlantic districts, and between different parts of each, will be rendered more and more easy by those numerous canals with which the beneficence of nature has intersected our country, and which art finds it so little difficult to connect and complete.”

    The building of canals, as an argument in support of the Commerce Clause and the Constitution, further reflects the pragmatic – and commercial – attitudes of key Founders. In 1785, two years before the Constitutional Convention, George Washington established the Potowmack Company, which began digging canals to extend navigable waterways westward where he and other Founders had invested in Ohio and other undeveloped lands.

    Thus, the idea of involving the central government in major economic projects – a government-business partnership to create jobs and profits – was there from the beginning. Madison, Washington and other early American leaders saw the Constitution as creating a dynamic system so the young country could grow and compete with rival economies around the world.

    Ironically, given today’s furor over the Commerce Clause and the Affordable Care Act, Madison considered the grant of power to Congress to regulate interstate commerce one of the Constitution’s least controversial elements."

    Read the whole article at...

    Romney’s Upside-Down Constitution | Consortiumnews
    No they didn't, but they saw the need for a limited central government, hence the constitution and its ability to limit it. Having one was a draw back and was heavily debated from the get go.

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    Senior Member Dr.Gently's Avatar
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    Oh the "Intent of the founders" debate again?

    Perfect.

    I'll have my slave beat my wife to get in the proper mood.

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