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Thread: Trump's America

  1. #41
    Veteran Member Panzareta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    This is an ignorant post. If you want to understand WHY the civilized regions of the Western Hemisphere arose in Mesoamerica and the Andean region of South America, and not in North America, you would do well to read a book like Guns, Germs, and Steel, by Jared Diamond. Mesoamerica and the Andean region were the areas that had plants that could be domesticated. North America for the most part did NOT. Agriculture is necessary for building advanced cultures.
    If only NA Indians had a need for oil, they would have rich I tell you, rich! Why it was bubbling up out of the ground all over LA County.
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  2. #42
    DEEP STATE CEO Blues63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slartibartfast View Post
    What a misguided and infactual post.
    Infactual?

    grammar-nazi.jpg
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  3. #43
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    This is an ignorant post. If you want to understand WHY the civilized regions of the Western Hemisphere arose in Mesoamerica and the Andean region of South America, and not in North America, you would do well to read a book like Guns, Germs, and Steel, by Jared Diamond. Mesoamerica and the Andean region were the areas that had plants that could be domesticated. North America for the most part did NOT. Agriculture is necessary for building advanced cultures.
    I've seen that book, and it looked fascinating. I just never got around to it.


  4. #44
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    I've seen that book, and it looked fascinating. I just never got around to it.

    Read that book, and you will NEVER look at world history the same way again.
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  5. #45
    Human Bean KnotaFrayed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Yes. Of course the Mesa Verde culture was a late outgrowth of the much more advanced cultures that had emerged much earlier to the south, in Mesoamerica. The term means roughly the southern two thirds of what is nowadays Mexico, plus the northern third of Central America.
    If the Americas were populated via the Beringia land bridge, that meant First Peoples to the Americas had to come from the north, originally and even with settling in places were year round agriculture made "civilizations" They were still "savages" to the Spanish conquistadores who helped decimate the Aztec and Inca and the Spanish conquest that did the Mayan Empire in, as well.

    You are right though that it was the domestication of plants and where that was possible that not only accounted for the possibility of a sedentary lifestyle, but climate was also believed to has been a factor in the disappearance of the those who inhabited the cliff Pueblos. It is also believed the first inhabitants to the Mesa Verde area and that which eventually ended up building the cliff Pueblos were Paleo-Indians that were nomadic and visited the area to hunt and gather and some believe developed on their own as the Foothills Mountain Complex. Others believe it was their contact with other Archaic people in the region, as you mentioned. Maize, domesticated further south in what is now Mexico and basket making were said to have been chief factors in the more sedentary lifestyles, but also over reliance on maize was believed to have been a factor in the disappearance of the cliff dwellers when it got too hot and dry.

    Still, as you have stated and shown, it was climate that led to the possibility of sedentary lifestyles and the domestication of plants. One might also be reminded that Mexico is a part of North America (Mayans). As you also stated, that does not include much of North America and western North America where mountain glaciers were still more in evidence 9500 years ago.

    Considering the cultural empires that have come and gone through millennia, I would not try to suggest as a777pilot did, that "building" something necessarily means some sort of warranty the "culture" or "civilization" will survive into eternity, although many survived for far longer than the U.S. has been in existence so far. It seems funny that so many of the same sorts of people that now support Donald Trump at one point touted how fabulous America is and the place everyone wants to come to, then they voted for someone who told them how stupid they and all other politicians have been and how America is so terrible it has to be made "great again"...Even if, the "again" as a period to return to, has never been defined.
    Last edited by KnotaFrayed; 4th July 2018 at 07:42 PM.
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  6. #46
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnotaFrayed View Post
    If the Americas were populated via the Beringia land bridge, that meant First Peoples to the Americas had to come from the north, originally and even with settling in places were year round agriculture made "civilizations" They were still "savages" to the Spanish conquistadores who helped decimate the Aztec and Inca and the Spanish conquest that did the Mayan Empire in, as well.

    You are right though that it was the domestication of plants and where that was possible that not only accounted for the possibility of a sedentary lifestyle, but climate was also believed to has been a factor in the disappearance of the those who inhabited the cliff Pueblos. It is also believed the first inhabitants to the Mesa Verde area and that which eventually ended up building the cliff Pueblos were Paleo-Indians that were nomadic and visited the area to hunt and gather and some believe developed on their own as the Foothills Mountain Complex. Others believe it was their contact with other Archaic people in the region, as you mentioned. Maize, domesticated further south in what is now Mexico and basket making were said to have been chief factors in the more sedentary lifestyles, but also over reliance on maize was believed to have been a factor in the disappearance of the cliff dwellers when it got too hot and dry.

    Still, as you have stated and shown, it was climate that led to the possibility of sedentary lifestyles and the domestication of plants. One might also be reminded that Mexico is a part of North America (Mayans). As you also stated, that does not include much of North America and western North America where mountain glaciers were still more in evidence 9500 years ago.

    Considering the cultural empires that have come and gone through millennia, I would not try to suggest as a777pilot did, that "building" something necessarily means some sort of warranty the "culture" or "civilization" will survive into eternity, although many survived for far longer than the U.S. has been in existence so far. It seems funny that so many of the same sorts of people that now support Donald Trump at one point touted how fabulous America is and the place everyone wants to come to, then they voted for someone who told them how stupid they and all other politicians have been and how America is so terrible it has to be made "great again"...Even if, the "again" as a period to return to, has never been defined.
    The American Southwest is a region that is prone to mega-droughts, which last for decades. You are quite right that climate change is connected with the disappearance of the Pueblo Indian culture. There was a mega-drought in the mid-12th century, and then another one at the end of the 13th century that was decisive, in simply making agriculture impossible in the Mesa Verde region. Some of the Pueblo Indians may have fled down the Rio Grande towards the Gulf of Mexico.

    A NASA study found that this region and the Great Plains face a near-certainty of a mega-drought in this century due to anthropogenic influences on our climate. For all we know, that could start at any time.

    https://www.google.com/url?q=https:/...xKBJPCOdeMowJl

  7. #47
    Veteran Member Chief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by galatin View Post
    When you look at what is happening to these children, there is more than a gap between Trumps's administration and reality as the rest of people in the world live it. What dictates this behavior is difficult to figure out. What political benefit can Trump hope from separating children from parents or incarcerating families ? There is no bonus to get unless for one's ego, i.e. to enjoy being alone against almost all. Is it part of "the Art of the Deal", you create an awful situation which mobilizes everyone to do things in a hidden way beside. Is Trumper a master chess player, knowing in advance his next 5-6 moves ? Or just someone prisoner of his reptilian brain ?
    I think if you look at how happy this makes his base, there definitely is political gain. I am not sure if it is more than the political cost, but I bet Trump is going to pay more attention to the 20% cheering than to the 65% jeering.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    I've seen that book, and it looked fascinating. I just never got around to it.

    Its also a PBS series

    https://www.pbs.org/gunsgermssteel/show/episode1.html
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  9. #49
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    Wow, I had NO idea they had turned it into a PBS series! Thanks!
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  10. #50
    Above the FRAY Friday13's Avatar
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