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Thread: Proof That America Was Founded As A Christian Nation

  1. #21
    Partisan Courtesan RosieS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kontrary View Post
    My question is this....regardless of the founders "intent", cant the US decide to completely change if it wants to? If the US wanted to become a theocracy, it could be done...if the US was a theocracy and people wanted to change it and become secular, arent they free to do that as well?

    Is the US free to change as it decides, needs? Do most feel we must remain loyal to what the founding fathers wanted, is it our responsibility to maintain their vision in any way?
    The free exercise of religion cannot be maintained in a theocracy. If a theocracy gets established, everything NOT of that particular religion is forbidden.

    Everyone can practice their own faith only under a secular government that allows all and establishes no religion.

    Can you imagine how unhappy many would be if theocracy they badly want ends up being Islam?

    Christians should rejoice in a non-religious government.

    Regards from Rosie
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  2. #22
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Several of the Founding Fathers were deists, a theology that believes God exists and created the world but has no ongoing interest in human welfare. The deist theology could not, under any theory, be described as Christian.

    I don't know what point the Op seeks to make with his claim. If Christian Americans derive extra rights under his construct, then do white Americans as well? Male Americans?

    Why aren't equal rights enough?
    A Deist is a person who believes in a Supreme being, but does not agree with the man made rules of Religion.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BYG Jacob View Post
    Funny, because this guy is completely wrong. Considering the founders were so concerned with the separation of church and state
    Total ka ka. They were concerned with liberty of conscience and protecting the citizens from the kind of government oppression that led people to the new world. Put the founders in a time machine and bring them here and they would see no difference between the middle ages Catholic church and modern day progressives. People using the power of the state to violate the consciences of everyday citizens was exactly why the constitution was written the way it was. Today's progressives, who love to think of the Constitution as a living document, seem to ignore the fact that when the founders wrote the constitution, religion was the only game in town for acting like a government empowered egomaniac that thinks it knows what's best for its people. In the past hundred years, we have seen atheists (Stalin) and Cults of personality (Hitler) and modern interpretations of liberalism being used to do what people always do, seek power to dominate others.

    Wake up guys. You want the same thing some of those popes wanted, to dominate, exploit and impose your morality on others.

    That's the human condition.
    Last edited by kmiller1610; 14th September 2015 at 11:55 PM.
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  4. #24
    Junior Member grinder's Avatar
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    Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on
    the Christian religion;
    as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or
    tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility
    against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious
    opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
    Aboutenough, aren't you concerned that you come across as a bit loopy with this easily-discredited nonsense, and your selective attention to SOME types of sinners but never others? I only ask because if your real goal was to undermine Christianity you could scarcely be doing a better job.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by RosieS View Post
    Christians should rejoice in a non-religious government.
    But isn't. Forced charity and mandatory social spending is steeped in religious assumptions.

    You guys just want your own alt morality to be imposed.

    Same modus operandi, different dogmas.

  6. #26
    Veteran Member Kontrary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RosieS View Post
    The free exercise of religion cannot be maintained in a theocracy. If a theocracy gets established, everything NOT of that particular religion is forbidden.

    Everyone can practice their own faith only under a secular government that allows all and establishes no religion.

    Can you imagine how unhappy many would be if theocracy they badly want ends up being Islam?

    Christians should rejoice in a non-religious government.

    Regards from Rosie
    I wouldnt favor a theocracy, but my question is, doesnt the populace have a right to become one if they choose? I am just wondering if people are more tied to the way things were intended by founding fathers or do we view these things in light of what people want here and now....what is the basis for our stance on how the govt should operate, is it permanently tied to what the founding fathers wanted or is it based on what works best here and now?

    If it has to stay with what the founding fathers wanted and envisioned, I guess this question makes sense BUT if we strive to create a system and govt that serves goals that we hold now and its to serve the vision we have now, then this question makes no sense cause it wouldnt matter how it was founded or what they wanted or intended, whats best for us now is all that would matter.

  7. #27
    Veteran Member Kontrary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmiller1610 View Post
    But isn't. Forced charity and mandatory social spending is steeped in religious assumptions.

    You guys just want your own alt morality to be imposed.

    Same modus operandi, different dogmas.
    It is not steeped in religious assumptions. Its based on priorities and goals and then how to achieve those priorities and goals. Taking care of people who have less and need more help is not a religious thing...just like how best to manage our sewage, power, transportation etc are not steeped in religious assumptions....regulations on products and licenses needed to legally perform certain procedures are not steeped in religious assumptions...

    You think you can attach a religious base to everything and magically it exists now! Its real, cause you typed it....

  8. #28
    Official HayJenn fan boi knight's Avatar
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    Now, I have read that George Washington was very much opposed to gay marriage, and even more importantly, he was against the remote chance that wedding photographers could be fined for refusing to take pictures of a same sex marriage. In his Papers on the Topic of Legalized Homosexual Anti-God Marriage, he told Robin Hood "I just don't want wedding photographers living in a state named after me to be fined...its just rude and stuff." He later said "It will never happen, unless there is a black President...and we know that will never happen."
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  9. #29
    Veteran Member Kontrary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knight View Post
    Now, I have read that George Washington was very much opposed to gay marriage, and even more importantly, he was against the remote chance that wedding photographers could be fined for refusing to take pictures of a same sex marriage. In his Papers on the Topic of Legalized Homosexual Anti-God Marriage, he told Robin Hood "I just don't want wedding photographers living in a state named after me to be fined...its just rude and stuff." He later said "It will never happen, unless there is a black President...and we know that will never happen."
    LOL Boy do you bring up a good point, I doubt they ever envisioned or intended that a black man could be president....seriously, you KNOW they just didnt....
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  10. #30
    Partisan Courtesan RosieS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kontrary View Post
    I wouldnt favor a theocracy, but my question is, doesnt the populace have a right to become one if they choose? I am just wondering if people are more tied to the way things were intended by founding fathers or do we view these things in light of what people want here and now....what is the basis for our stance on how the govt should operate, is it permanently tied to what the founding fathers wanted or is it based on what works best here and now?

    If it has to stay with what the founding fathers wanted and envisioned, I guess this question makes sense BUT if we strive to create a system and govt that serves goals that we hold now and its to serve the vision we have now, then this question makes no sense cause it wouldnt matter how it was founded or what they wanted or intended, whats best for us now is all that would matter.
    Changing to freedom for one or a handful of religions, no matter which ones, denies freedom of religion to all Americans not of that particular stripe.

    Freedom to worship how one wants; or not to as the case may be, is such a bedrock civil right that, even tho' some would fervently wish it, will not change.

    No majorities can vote away the civil rights of a non-majority. Civil rights are held individually thru mere citizenship and the tyranny of the majority is meant to be avoided by the Constitution.

    The First is every much inviolate as the Second Amendment.

    Regards from Rosie
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