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Thread: Proof That America Was Founded As A Christian Nation

  1. #41
    Partisan Courtesan RosieS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kontrary View Post
    You are talking about if theocracy is good or not, it has nothing to do with my question.

    Here is the question

    what is the basis for our stance on how the govt should operate, is it permanently tied to what the founding fathers wanted or is it based on what works best here and now?

    Further, is it permanent? Should it be? What if a new system of govt was created and a better framework than the constitution, would it be ok to leave the system you have now and adopt that new one that people like better and would rather have? OR is that just a forbidden area and there should be no discussion beyond what the founding fathers wanted, envisioned and set up as the template.
    You totally ignored my explanation that civil rights are inviolable and therefore immutable.

    Changing to what "people would like better" involves, by necessity, a plebiscite - which cannot result in denial of individual civil rights.

    Changing the form of gov't changes that which cannot and must not be changed.

    Which is what I said in my answer before this one.

    Regards from Rosie
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  2. #42
    Veteran Member bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RosieS View Post
    You totally ignored my explanation that civil rights are inviolable and therefore immutable.

    Changing to what "people would like better" involves, by necessity, a plebiscite - which cannot result in denial of individual civil rights.

    Changing the form of gov't changes that which cannot and must not be changed.

    Which is what I said in my answer before this one.

    Regards from Rosie
    and, you made a very good point. do you feel there are changes to the constitution which could be made to allow more equality of the decision making process as to laws and regulations which would not cause violations of the rights of the citizens?

  3. #43
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    A Deist is a person who believes in a Supreme being, but does not agree with the man made rules of Religion.
    While this is itself true, I believe Madeline's description of deism is more accurate. In deism, G-d basically started the world and lets it run on its own. Kind of like a watchmaker starts a watch. And certainly one could not confuse deism with Xianity (or any other religion).
    Thanks from Friday13

  4. #44
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmiller1610 View Post
    [The founders of the U.S.] were concerned with liberty of conscience and protecting the citizens from the kind of government oppression that led people to the new world.
    I call shenanigans. They were concerned with separation of church and state precisely because of concerns for freedom of conscience.

    Quote Originally Posted by kmiller1610 View Post
    Put the founders in a time machine and bring them here and they would see no difference between the middle ages Catholic church and modern day progressives.
    Horsehockey. You are, again, trying to make everything into religion so as to revoke over two centuries of First Amendment jurisprudence and institute a completely different interpretation that the authors of that amendment would not recognize. The Establishment Clause is about religion, not non-religion ideologies, and you claim to the contrary is not only disingenuous at best, but is just plain wrong.
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  5. #45
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BYG Jacob View Post
    Funny, because this guy is completely wrong. Considering the founders were so concerned with the separation of church and state
    That is what liberals project off a letter Jefferson wrote to a church. They take the first amendment and tell us Government shall respect no religion or pass a law that prevents free exercise. Says nothing about having a government being forced to be free of religion, just do not use religion as a tool for government. Does not mean our country was not formed on Christian principles as I pointed out in the OP

  6. #46
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boontito View Post
    I'm against revisionists like you redefining the traditional meaning of the word "proof".
    My definition of proof and your definition must be similar to Bill Clintons definition of the word , IS

  7. #47
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cicero View Post
    I'm guessing conspiracy theories would be more appropriate...but that's just my opinion.
    There needs to be a new section called Liberal theories where they try to change history

  8. #48
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redwood View Post
    America was FOUNDED as a SECULAR nation (1st Amend). America was also founded as a nation where Women were second class citizens and Black people were livestock...property. Native Americans...you could hunt and kill.....or just rip off.

    Old Times.. paved roads were rare, we had no electricity...no cars or cell phones or internet. If you want 18th century.. join the Amish.
    The Declaration has many references to God throughout the document. The most famous one is that men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.
    “We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness”
    Looks like the Declaration of Independence disagrees with you

  9. #49
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kontrary View Post
    My question is this....regardless of the founders "intent", cant the US decide to completely change if it wants to? If the US wanted to become a theocracy, it could be done...if the US was a theocracy and people wanted to change it and become secular, arent they free to do that as well?

    Is the US free to change as it decides, needs? Do most feel we must remain loyal to what the founding fathers wanted, is it our responsibility to maintain their vision in any way?
    Already doing that. Notice how many posters here deny any mention of God in the Declaration of Independence. They figure they deny it enough it becomes true. Can they change laws, yes they just did. Can they change history, no, but they will keep trying because they cannot stand what Americas original intent was. They desparately want an atheist nation, but it will never happen. It takes Congress to change our direction. Think that can be accomplished? Doubt it.

  10. #50
    Veteran Member Moorhuhn Wanted Champion Hollywood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    Already doing that. Notice how many posters here deny any mention of God in the Declaration of Independence. They figure they deny it enough it becomes true. Can they change laws, yes they just did. Can they change history, no, but they will keep trying because they cannot stand what Americas original intent was. They desparately want an atheist nation, but it will never happen. It takes Congress to change our direction. Think that can be accomplished? Doubt it.
    Bullshit, no one denies the word "God" is used in the DOI. They deny it was used in the Constituion.
    Thanks from Panzareta

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