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Thread: America Needs a Third Party

  1. #11
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humorme View Post
    That remains to be seen. Everybody is currently complaining because we have no real choices. There is no difference between the D and the R. They are rival gangs selling the same basic product.
    There are many third parties out there but their platforms don't appeal to enough people. Like it or not, most voters are either under the democrats or republican ideologies which is why they are the two major parties.

    Simply creating a new party is not going to change the way people think.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    It already exists, it's called the constitutional party.
    Not quite. Read the solutions in the first suggestion. Constitution Party and the Rs are on the same page

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    There are many third parties out there but their platforms don't appeal to enough people. Like it or not, most voters are either under the democrats or republican ideologies which is why they are the two major parties.

    Simply creating a new party is not going to change the way people think.
    It sounds like you are parroting what the major parties have programmed you, Pavlovian style, to say. The greatest journey begins with a single step. The problem with a lot of third parties up to this point is that they don't have a plan; they react to issues much like the Rs did to Obamacare. A successful third party will bring a platform of solutions to the table.

  4. #14
    ~ The loyal opposition ~ Puzzling Evidence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humorme View Post
    No, for me, a third party would use the Constitution as a foundation upon which to work from.

    They would have to support the Second Amendment

    Without a constitutional amendment, the abortion issue is settled law

    Universal Healthcare would need to be fully addressed. We need healthcare, but we are not a socialist nation (and a third party would not want us to be as the Ds and Rs are so committed to it.) Healthcare would not be an easy issue, but certainly one that a third party would give much consideration before commenting.

    We see what happened on that issue when the Rs wailed and complained, but wasted years complaining about something they had NO plan to fix it with. A third party would not want to make that strategic mistake.
    No, the Constitution is almost always subject to interpretation as it affects every aspect of our lives. Abortion is a complicated issue, it's not an easy enough of a call just to go look it up.

    The socials card, nice, but ALL insurance comes out of a pool. Isn't insurance, itself, socialist by that measure?

  5. #15
    ~ The loyal opposition ~ Puzzling Evidence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    There are many third parties out there but their platforms don't appeal to enough people. Like it or not, most voters are either under the democrats or republican ideologies which is why they are the two major parties.

    Simply creating a new party is not going to change the way people think.
    I disagree, libertarians will soon steal party members from both sides. Politics will soon run dry of 'social issues' and become more fiscally based.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puzzling Evidence View Post
    No, the Constitution is almost always subject to interpretation as it affects every aspect of our lives. Abortion is a complicated issue, it's not an easy enough of a call just to go look it up.

    The socials card, nice, but ALL insurance comes out of a pool. Isn't insurance, itself, socialist by that measure?
    I agree with you. But, legally speaking, I think the abortion issue is not worth putting before a liberal Supreme Court. IF the pro-life faction could convince the courts, scientifically, that life begins at conception, they may have a chance. Otherwise???

    Yeah, insurance is socialistic. It's also legalized gambling. I know we could never get rid of it, but I'm also against the government mandating it. IF Uncle Scam could guarantee me a job and a minimum paycheck that would cover what they mandate, I might listen. But, they can't and we cannot remain free as long as we reward people that don't want to work by giving them minimal handouts that are just enough to make them dependent on Uncle Scam.

  7. #17
    Bizarroland Observer Thx1138's Avatar
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    Yes, we'll have one big party in the middle, the existing ones will be pushed to the side as "fringes."

    And all the cut and thrust of debate will wither away as everything goes through the dominant party on the nod.

    It won't work.

    Even though the two-party system is not perfect, it's still the only workable form of democracy we have.

    Thx
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humorme View Post
    For years I have been trying to reason with the two party system and neither side has the right solutions nor do they care to work together to get a final resolution. I want to examine just three areas to start off with and maybe you too have a better solution than what is on the table.

    1) Immigration - The right wants to treat foreigners like criminals and they want to deport 11 million people with no plan to deal with the families left behind. The left wants to grant citizenship, unable to understand that we live on a finite piece of real estate and we cannot contain the equivalent of another country's population every few years.

    The nutty wall idea would only have people digging tunnels, drilling holes in the wall, flying over the wall, and bribing the people guarding the border. The left would destroy our culture and put millions on the government dole with citizenship. You need a third party.

    A third party would advocate legalizing drugs and then Mexico could tax drugs coming into the United States; the United States would tax the drugs coming in and Mexico would match the U.S. man for man and dollar for dollar for border security.

    The U.S. would create a Guest Worker program with no path to citizenship. Guest Workers would pay a $250 fee and the government would do their worthless background check on the foreigner, issue an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number and leave them alone. Guest Workers would not be entitled to any of the benefits / privileges of citizenship (welfare, Social Security, etc.)

    Current business tax rates are around 39 percent. Under these new third party proposals they would stay the same and the employer could hire whomever they choose. But, if they work with the government, they would get huge tax incentives that would drastically lower their tax burden. For example:

    A) Hire an all American workforce and get a substantial tax incentive

    B) Take Americans off the welfare dole, unemployment line and off disability and that's another incentive

    C) Bring jobs to America and get another incentive

    Offer enough incentives so that if an employer uses three or more, they max out at a 13 percent tax rate

    Then you make English the official language. Immigration debacle solved by third party proposals.

    2) Privacy Rights - Currently the left thinks they can infringe on the Second Amendment with gun bans and creating prohibited classes of Americans. So, they want background checks, licenses, registration, etc. Then, the left (being double minded) jumps on the bandwagon of privacy Rights and doesn't want the government to examine the backgrounds of undocumented foreigners. They also came out against the Republicans efforts to destroy Privacy Rights by allowing your ISP to raid your info and market it.

    The right picks up where the left leaves off. They endorse the complete evisceration of Privacy Rights via the so - called "Patriot Act," laws like SB 1070, National ID / REAL ID Act, E - Verify, etc.. Their agenda revolves around prove this, prove that, background check, pee test, hair sample, blood test, criminal background check, credit background check, 24 / 7 / 365 surveillance, etc., etc.

    The reality here is that the left's intrusive measures are as worthless as tits on a boar hog without the right's agenda of keeping a womb to the tomb database on every American.

    A third party proposal would get rid of all that. A third party would eliminate the IRS via something like the Fair Tax, eliminating SSN based ID. Repeal National ID; restore the Fourth Amendment. Eliminate the concept of endless background checks except for rare cases (like for employees who are in charge of children, large sums of money, etc.) Make privacy a paramount concern.

    3) Reduce the size, power and scope of government - A third party proposal would downsize government. Abolish the federal Dept. of Education and give education back to the jurisdiction of the states. Abolish the BATFE. Alcohol and tobacco violations could be turned over to the DEA and explosives violations would come under the FBI's jurisdiction.

    For every problem the two major parties cannot fix without driving us further and further toward socialism and tyranny, a third party could reverse the trend. It's time for new ideas.
    And your solutions can only lead to marginalize the USA as a great power with many unpleasant consequences for the people inhabitating it not to speak of the rest of the world. What is at stake are not ideologies but how to remain performing in a changing world. And actually the US seem to have difficulties to address many challenges, like the problems of infrastructures, education, health care etc... Where they are left behind in international comparison with other developped countries. So the question is not big government or immigration but what is necessary to maintain and make progress the implemention of a vision of the future in which the US would be able to be still considered as being exceptional and kind of a light tower for other countries.... And you cannot hope to reach that with what you propose....
    Thanks from OldGaffer

  9. #19
    Veteran Member John T Ford's Avatar
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    Fuckin socialist ....

    Go figure.

  10. #20
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    Curse....curse.... curse .... and where his your brain in all of that ?

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