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Thread: America Needs a Third Party

  1. #21
    Member Iolo's Avatar
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    What America needs is boundary commissioners and an end to gerrymandering.

  2. #22
    Veteran Member Southern Dad's Avatar
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    There are several third parties already out there. The problem is that their positions align only with a certain group of Americans. The only way you will ever get a candidate that aligns with 100% of your beliefs is to toss your own hat into the ring.

  3. #23
    Veteran Member Southern Dad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iolo View Post
    What America needs is boundary commissioners and an end to gerrymandering.
    Considering 7 of the 10 most gerrymandered districts are held by Democrats, I'm betting you could get some people to get on board with that... There is that pesky Constitution though that says the state legislatures get to determine the districts. I know, the hell with that old piece of paper, right?

  4. #24
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    If a third party became viable enough it would merely replace one of the two we have now. We'd still only have two major parties. We'd have to have proportional representation in order for third parties to have any power or influence.

  5. #25
    Veteran Member EnigmaO01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humorme View Post
    For years I have been trying to reason with the two party system and neither side has the right solutions nor do they care to work together to get a final resolution. I want to examine just three areas to start off with and maybe you too have a better solution than what is on the table.

    1) Immigration - The right wants to treat foreigners like criminals and they want to deport 11 million people with no plan to deal with the families left behind. The left wants to grant citizenship, unable to understand that we live on a finite piece of real estate and we cannot contain the equivalent of another country's population every few years.

    The nutty wall idea would only have people digging tunnels, drilling holes in the wall, flying over the wall, and bribing the people guarding the border. The left would destroy our culture and put millions on the government dole with citizenship. You need a third party.

    A third party would advocate legalizing drugs and then Mexico could tax drugs coming into the United States; the United States would tax the drugs coming in and Mexico would match the U.S. man for man and dollar for dollar for border security.

    The U.S. would create a Guest Worker program with no path to citizenship. Guest Workers would pay a $250 fee and the government would do their worthless background check on the foreigner, issue an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number and leave them alone. Guest Workers would not be entitled to any of the benefits / privileges of citizenship (welfare, Social Security, etc.)

    Current business tax rates are around 39 percent. Under these new third party proposals they would stay the same and the employer could hire whomever they choose. But, if they work with the government, they would get huge tax incentives that would drastically lower their tax burden. For example:

    A) Hire an all American workforce and get a substantial tax incentive

    B) Take Americans off the welfare dole, unemployment line and off disability and that's another incentive

    C) Bring jobs to America and get another incentive

    Offer enough incentives so that if an employer uses three or more, they max out at a 13 percent tax rate

    Then you make English the official language. Immigration debacle solved by third party proposals.

    2) Privacy Rights - Currently the left thinks they can infringe on the Second Amendment with gun bans and creating prohibited classes of Americans. So, they want background checks, licenses, registration, etc. Then, the left (being double minded) jumps on the bandwagon of privacy Rights and doesn't want the government to examine the backgrounds of undocumented foreigners. They also came out against the Republicans efforts to destroy Privacy Rights by allowing your ISP to raid your info and market it.

    The right picks up where the left leaves off. They endorse the complete evisceration of Privacy Rights via the so - called "Patriot Act," laws like SB 1070, National ID / REAL ID Act, E - Verify, etc.. Their agenda revolves around prove this, prove that, background check, pee test, hair sample, blood test, criminal background check, credit background check, 24 / 7 / 365 surveillance, etc., etc.

    The reality here is that the left's intrusive measures are as worthless as tits on a boar hog without the right's agenda of keeping a womb to the tomb database on every American.

    A third party proposal would get rid of all that. A third party would eliminate the IRS via something like the Fair Tax, eliminating SSN based ID. Repeal National ID; restore the Fourth Amendment. Eliminate the concept of endless background checks except for rare cases (like for employees who are in charge of children, large sums of money, etc.) Make privacy a paramount concern.

    3) Reduce the size, power and scope of government - A third party proposal would downsize government. Abolish the federal Dept. of Education and give education back to the jurisdiction of the states. Abolish the BATFE. Alcohol and tobacco violations could be turned over to the DEA and explosives violations would come under the FBI's jurisdiction.

    For every problem the two major parties cannot fix without driving us further and further toward socialism and tyranny, a third party could reverse the trend. It's time for new ideas.
    I would like to see even more than just three viable parties. Maybe half a dozen where they have to work together in coalitions like they do in Canada and Europe. (The keys words are "work together.") Not the dysfunctional clusterfuck we have now.
    Thanks from bajisima

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thx1138 View Post
    Yes, we'll have one big party in the middle, the existing ones will be pushed to the side as "fringes."

    And all the cut and thrust of debate will wither away as everything goes through the dominant party on the nod.

    It won't work.

    Even though the two-party system is not perfect, it's still the only workable form of democracy we have.

    Thx
    You just showed why a third party would work. See Article 4 Section 4 of the Constitution.

  7. #27
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    I would like to see even more than just three viable parties. Maybe half a dozen where they have to work together in coalitions like they do in Canada and Europe. (The keys words are "work together.") Not the dysfunctional clusterfuck we have now.
    Because of our system, that can't happen. In Canada and many European nations they have parliamentary governments that allow for proportional seating. We don't have that.
    Thanks from EnigmaO01

  8. #28
    Veteran Member bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    I would like to see even more than just three viable parties. Maybe half a dozen where they have to work together in coalitions like they do in Canada and Europe. (The keys words are "work together.") Not the dysfunctional clusterfuck we have now.
    and I agree with that. unfortunately, the two major parties we do have control the distribution of financing and the rules for any additional parties. that's the first problem. then there is the case to be made for proportional voting (open or closed) to dicide on - again controlled by the major two parties. and who controls those rules? yup, the same people who stand to lose if such a system is instituted.
    Thanks from EnigmaO01

  9. #29
    Bizarroland Observer Thx1138's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humorme View Post
    You just showed why a third party would work. See Article 4 Section 4 of the Constitution.
    Explain it to us here.

    Thx
    Thanks from Minotaur

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by galatin View Post
    And your solutions can only lead to marginalize the USA as a great power with many unpleasant consequences for the people inhabitating it not to speak of the rest of the world. What is at stake are not ideologies but how to remain performing in a changing world. And actually the US seem to have difficulties to address many challenges, like the problems of infrastructures, education, health care etc... Where they are left behind in international comparison with other developped countries. So the question is not big government or immigration but what is necessary to maintain and make progress the implemention of a vision of the future in which the US would be able to be still considered as being exceptional and kind of a light tower for other countries.... And you cannot hope to reach that with what you propose....
    I took three issues where the two party system wastes a lot of time, turns America into a totalitarian dictatorship, and we suffer. You try to act like I said if we implement those three things, it changes all that is wrong with America. Well, instead of focusing on trying to tell me why those solutions should not be implemented, you are trying to imply that's all I have. WTH? Do you know why you do that?

    You tend to believe most strongly what you hear first
    If you change, it will most likely be to that which you've heard repeated many times
    You tend to believe that which you want to believe or that which fits your preconceived ideas or notions
    Last, humans are least likely to believe that which is logical and makes sense ... especially if it contradicts what they hear most.

    America was founded as a Republic, not a democracy and it was founded on principles that are antithetical to socialism. As long as we followed the formula, we became the envy of the world. Then, we began to bastardize our own Constitution, leading us farther and farther from prosperity and Liberty.

    And so, on an installment plan, those who do not want to rely on the original plan, but worship a government God want us to give up the lion's share of what we earn, give it to a tyrannical government and live under socialism. That kind of dependency on government stifles innovation and progress; it breeds laziness; it hinders invention. Every objection I've read here does not show me that a third party is a bad idea. It only proves how badly it is needed.


    In the OP I did not say that what I proposed is the magic elixir. I asked the rest of you to suggest things the two party system hasn't considered. Instead, everybody is focusing on why they think a third party won't work. People have been so brainwashed, Pavlovian style, that they cannot focus on the subject at hand.

    If all I had were those three issues, it would not change the bottom line. I have many more, but that is not what the OP was about. If we follow the path of socialism, we become like all the other countries on earth. If we follow the path to Liberty and Freedom, we make American great again and it prospers like it did when America was the greatest nation in the annals of history.

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