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Thread: Can anyone point to a successful modern Libertarian nation-state?

  1. #41
    RNG
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDozer View Post
    I didn't claim either. Rojava is an example of practicing a form of libertarian socialism.
    My point was that socialism and libertarianism are spectra rather than absolutes.

    But I must admit that I have never heard of libertarian socialism before. I would think that to be a contradiction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RNG View Post
    My point was that socialism and libertarianism are spectra rather than absolutes.

    But I must admit that I have never heard of libertarian socialism before. I would think that to be a contradiction.
    It usually refers to anarchism, which historically has always been a variety of socialism.
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    Nothing pure exists in this world for very long. The best form of government is whatever the people have the most faith in at any given time. So far the United States has occasionally flashed the potential to be fluid enough, centrist enough, to incorporate some of the best of the left and the best of the right...I think that's where the potential is. Understanding that balance is important. You go in either direction too far you quickly end up with one brand of tyranny or another, and that doesn't last very long.

    So nothing resembling the vision of American Libertarians is realistic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by libertariat720 View Post
    Respond to Milton. Is there some society that doesn't run on greed? And what great accomplishments in human history have come out of government institutions?

    Or was that capitalism, and also greed?

    Nicola tesla was not motivated by greed. He was taken advantage of greedy men, however. But it wasn't the greedy men that created his inventions.

    In fact, an argument can be made that capitalist greed prevents as much good as it promotes. Think tobacco industry executives that countered research reveling the damage to health caused by smoking with their own fake research to protect profits.

    As for government - it provides the context, the infrastructure, the security, and often the funding that make great accomplishments possible.

    Just for fun, here is a definition of greed:

    noun
    1. excessive or rapacious desire, especially for wealth or possessions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RNG View Post
    My point was that socialism and libertarianism are spectra rather than absolutes.

    But I must admit that I have never heard of libertarian socialism before. I would think that to be a contradiction.
    A lot of people think that because the only exposure most of the US has to socialism are the old nationalist propaganda caricatures about the USSR.

    Socialism is an ideology as broad and nuanced as liberalism, perhaps moreso. American politics just has a problem of being way too narrow. On an international scale, there is little difference between the mainstream ideologies of the Democratic and Republican parties. Both are liberal parties. The Democrats are centrist neoliberal/social liberals. The Republicans are centre-right neoliberal/classical liberals.

    The main two distinctions with socialism are revolutionary or reformist, and authoritarian or libertarian.

    For good examples of libertarian socialism, look into ideas such as anarho-syndicalism (as well as left-wing anarchism in general), mutualism, council communism, guild socialism, autonomism, participism, and in the case of Rojava, democratic confederalism.

    Democratic socialism is a sort of moderate catch-all variant of libertarian socialism, while you also have geolibertarianism, which is application of Georgism to centre-left libertarian thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by libertariat720 View Post
    "There is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people, that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system."

    That is what libertarians understand and that is all they seek to foster.
    It is greed that would destroy any truly free enterprise system.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    It is greed that would destroy any truly free enterprise system.
    More specifically, feedback. You work hard, you accumulate wealth, and that wealth allows you to influence people and markets. It enables anti-competitive behavior of all sorts. As the big guy you could slash your prices and operate at a loss just long enough to obliterate your upstart competition, for example, then charge more than you ever did in a future without any competitors. As the big guy you will attract politicians and other wealthy people who want to protect their positions. The influence of wealth on lawmakers and markets has a snowball effect, until nothing can oppose it.

    So what do you do? Now you have to regulate shit to keep the big fish from eating all the little fish, which destroys competition and the entire purpose of the free market. So there goes your libertarian government. It evolves directly into fascism or some other tyranny if you don't regulate it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by libertariat720 View Post
    Your example is flawed since it was borne out of fraud.
    Argument from assertion. Please demonstrate.

  9. #49
    RNG
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    It is greed that would destroy any truly free enterprise system.
    Exactly. Too many people confuse free enterprise with capitalism. They are definitely not the same.
    Thanks from labrea

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