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Thread: Jews Are Not Like Nazis

  1. #61
    The Un-Holy One The Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state.
    Does Canada have a right to exist as a white, Anglo-Saxon Protestant state (okay, with an allowance for some French Catholics in Quebec )?

    FYI, many here apparently very much thought so, back in, like, the 50s and 60s, that the white, Anglo nature of Canada must be protected and preserved. There were limits on non-white immigration, Chinese were banned entirely for a long time, even less desirable whites, like Italians and Slavs/Eastern Europeans, were tightly restricted.

    Same sort of racist policies as in Israel, pretty much.
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  2. #62
    Sally Sitter Paris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    If you were addressing me in this post, two points: Israel is surrounded by hostile nations that overwhelm it in population and GDP.

    And Israel belongs to the World Court. Anyone who thinks that country has committed war crimes is free to pursue the case at the Hague.

    Meanwhile, neither of these is true of the US.
    No, I wasn't addressing you.

    To address your thread:

    No, I don't think Jews as a whole are like Nazis, and I find it an offensive comparison, too. Especially since most of the Jews I know are liberals who defend the rights of other groups as well. Granted, most of my relatives live in France. I've never been to Israel but I believe there is an overwhelming majority of liberals in cities such as Tel Aviv. On the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me to hear that some Jews have a sick mindset like the Nazis had.
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  3. #63
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    No Palestinian group, whether Hamas or anyone else, has the actual MEANS, the ability, to "end" Israel, even if they may want to. It's all just empty rhetoric

    Meanwhile, Israel has just attacked Syria, yet again: Israeli Airstrikes Turn Syria Into a Proxy War With Iran | Time.com

    And they get to get away with that, they get away with anything they ever do, in the West, because they are Jews, and criticizing them is "antisemitism" and there is AIPAC and such lobbying their interests in Washington; and in Russia, because Jewish double citizen (Russian/Israeli) oligarchs negotiate with Putin on their behalf. Must be nice...
    Israel has more justification for fighting in Syria than either the US or Russia. At least we know Israel's motives are self-defense, not empire building or cheap oil.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    Defending Lebanon from an Israeli invasion is not "terrorism". My grandma sure as hell wasn't a "terrorist", because she was involved in partizan guerilla warfare against the Nazis on occupied territory during WWII. She was a hero, and was awarded for it accordingly, after the War. Those who defended Lebanon from Israel were heroes too, to their own people.
    Your country lists Hezbollah as a terrorist organization.
    I love how you guys talk tough, how you Israelies are so badass You do know you would be nothing without outside help? In the 40s, Stalin supplied you all the weapons you ever needed. And after, the USA carried you on their backs through everything...
    Help? Czechoslovakia got very good money (also selling weapons to Arabs) and Stalin used Israel to get Britain out of the Middle East. So, it was just a deal, not help. Anyway, even before this deal Israel already held off Arab armies, trained and armed by Britain and France.
    Of course great Israel cannot be compared with tiny Russia which managed to defeat her giant enemies - Georgia and Ukraine.

  5. #65
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    ... I love how you guys talk tough, how you Israelies are so badass You do know you would be nothing without outside help? In the 40s, Stalin supplied you all the weapons you ever needed. And after, the USA carried you on their backs through everything...
    This is a common misconception. The current situation with Israel is a stalemate; an ongoing, highly expensive status quo. If Israel were to suddenly lose all military aid, they would embrace the only strategy that would ensure the continuation of a Jewish State; namely - wipe out their enemies. Or at the very least, hurt them so badly that their fear is greater than their hatred. Israel can easily afford to decimate all opposing factions. Arab casualties would be enormous, and it's most certainly NOT Israel's preferred course of action.

    But at the end of the day, Israel wants to continue existing. And it can be done with, or without military aid.
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  6. #66
    Veteran Member John T Ford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    I have read some trash about Jews, Judaism and Israel in my time, but the comment that took the cake came last week when a member here who is educated, liberal and certainly seems to be a person of great good will towards all humanity stated "Jews are the new Nazis" on account of Israel. I can't tell you how disturbing it is to read this kind of lie, and it is part of an ancient pattern of anti-semitism that stretches back 6,000 years. I don't think the otherwise admirable person who wrote the offending comment is a deliberate antisemite; he probably thinks that's another terrible prejudice that needs putting down. But in fact, he has fallen victim to an especially hateful, insidious and successful campaign of hate speech about Jews and Israel that should make us all afraid.

    In that vein, here are more mistakes in thinking I see repeated too often in furtherance of an antisemitic POV:

    * Israel does not practice apartheid and it is not a racist state. "Apartheid" was the name given to a system of oppression and disenfranchisement practiced by white South Africans against their black fellow citizens, in which the goal was to support the extreme wealth of whites by assuring the extreme poverty of blacks. It was a deprivation of human rights in the economic, criminal justice, education, government and every other sense. Blacks in South Africa were living lives virtually as deprived and confined and exploited as those of slaves in the US before the Civil War. Anyone who did not live through the battle to end apartheid should pause and acquire some historical knowledge before they bandy about these terms.

    * Jews are not like Nazis. Jesus H. Christ, what a deeply, deeply offensive comparison. Jews do not believe they are superior; they don't think only Jews go to heaven or that God loves them best. The term "the Chosen people" is meant to convey that God chose them to form a special relationship, one in which Jews would demonstrate a deep and abiding faith in God despite suffering, almost without cessation, the full panoply of miseries that humans can suffer. They are meant to be walking examples of the Book of Job; faith without reward, through sufferings of every kind, across lives, generations, eons. They don't seek destruction of any other group of humans, show up for every liberal cause going, and are more concerned about justice for non-Jews in Israel than anyone else -- a concern they carry into action, even at the expense of the safety of the people of Israel. There is no Guantanamo Bay prison in Israel, where people are held indefinately without trial or charges; there is no Patriot Act, where any citizen's civil rights are suspended if the authorities suspect terrorism, etc.

    The US has lost almost 4,000 people to terror attacks by foreigners on its soil, and reacted with massive fear, creating a whole new cabinet-level agency to deprive everyone of some civil rights in hopes "it will never happen here again". By contrast, Israel accepts that terror attacks are an immutatable fact of life. They can be suppressed, but not stopped. 1,332 people have been killed in Israel by Palestinian violence since 2000. That places the odds of being killed by a terrorist in Israel at about 30 times what it is in the US. The odds of being killed by a foreign terrorist are about as low for Americans as they are for any people on earth, and those for Israelis among the highest. Yet, despite the hysteria and civil rights deprivation with which we reacted to 9/11, we feel free to criticise Israel for its self-defense tactics. It's hubris on steroids.

    * Jews do not view themselves as superior. Anyone with the motivation can become a Jew, if they wish. The preservation of the state of Israel is not about Jewish superiority; it's about Jewish survival. And every human owes the Jews a debt of gratitude, because they are the canaries in the mine. When racism and bigotry begin to rise that might impair YOUR family, you can be certain it impairs Jewish families first. It's the world's oldest and most virulent prejudice. The religion's edicts against assimilation are not about superiority; they are about preserving the Jewish people as a distinct group.

    And Israel does have a right to exist. Among other reasons, it was a promise made to the Jewish people, abandoned to their fates by the Allies in WW II. Almost 50% of the entire Jewish population perished in the concentration camps. New historical facts have revealed the leaders of the Allies knew in 1942 what the Nazis were doing to the Jews, and kept silent for another 4 years.

    'Allied leaders already knew extent of Holocaust by 1942' - Israel National News

    Furthermore, the West NEEDS Israel to exist. The surrounding nations are not friendly to the West and cannot be relied on as allies. but Israel can. They are the front lines on the war on terror and we owe them a great debt.

    * Peace in the Middle East is not a choice Israel can make. IMO, that peace requires an end to human rights violations by the Arab nations against their own people, especially women and children. They need democracy, literacy, and middle class, a more diverse economy and disempowerment of their warrior classes. Israel does more to further these goals, by educating and employing its Arab citizens, than any Arab nation does. The Arab nations are not even willing to shelter or support the refugees from Syria. Those now in power there have almost no humanitarian values, turning anyone -- even children -- into suicide bombers and routinely using children as human shields. The US can help to bring about peace in the Middle East, but not as long as cheap oil is our primary goal.

    Nobody can be BOTH an anti-semite and a liberal; it's not possible, anymore than promoting any other form of racism or bigotry is possible for any authentic liberal. This new wave of anti-Israel talk is not the first time that Jews have been lied about so as to create bad feelings towards them; it's been the hallmark of every campaign of hate they have ever suffered. Don't lend your voice to it. If you find yourself feeling persuaded by the New American Anti-semitism, get educated. Read the Jewish press here in the US or in Israel. Strive for a more balanced view.

    IMO, there has never been a more ethical, compassionate target of unrelenting war and terror attacks than Israel, and they have done almost nothing other than the minimum necessary to survive.
    "Nobody can be BOTH an anti-semite and a liberal"

    This is a false statement.

    Most liberals are anti-semitic as you are seeing here on PH.

    Look at how much the US's relations with Israel deteriorated under Obama.

    Look how Louis Farrakhan and Al Sharpton speak about Jews.

    Look at the way Jewish students are being treated at liberal Universities.

    Antisemitism is a hallmark of the Left.

    Leftist Anti-Semitism: It?s Consistent with Their Worldview | National Review
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  7. #67
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    I just recall how Stephen Harper was all getting in Putin's face over Crimea at that summit in Australia, remember that? While kissing Israel's ass at the same time...
    It's his life's mission. I forget his current role, his retirement project, but its something to do with support for Isreal

  8. #68
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    Well the crazy train has chop choo'd into town so I guess we're done now.

  9. #69
    Junior Member Claudius the God's Avatar
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    Israel is an apartheid state. There is no other way to describe it. They ended up becoming what they hate. If you hate enough, you turn into that thing you hate.

  10. #70
    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    This is a common misconception. The current situation with Israel is a stalemate; an ongoing, highly expensive status quo. If Israel were to suddenly lose all military aid, they would embrace the only strategy that would ensure the continuation of a Jewish State; namely - wipe out their enemies. Or at the very least, hurt them so badly that their fear is greater than their hatred. Israel can easily afford to decimate all opposing factions. Arab casualties would be enormous, and it's most certainly NOT Israel's preferred course of action.

    But at the end of the day, Israel wants to continue existing. And it can be done with, or without military aid.
    The nation of Israel doesn't have a very good track record regarding continuing to exist for an extended period of time.

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