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Thread: Jews Are Not Like Nazis

  1. #1
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Jews Are Not Like Nazis

    I have read some trash about Jews, Judaism and Israel in my time, but the comment that took the cake came last week when a member here who is educated, liberal and certainly seems to be a person of great good will towards all humanity stated "Jews are the new Nazis" on account of Israel. I can't tell you how disturbing it is to read this kind of lie, and it is part of an ancient pattern of anti-semitism that stretches back 6,000 years. I don't think the otherwise admirable person who wrote the offending comment is a deliberate antisemite; he probably thinks that's another terrible prejudice that needs putting down. But in fact, he has fallen victim to an especially hateful, insidious and successful campaign of hate speech about Jews and Israel that should make us all afraid.

    In that vein, here are more mistakes in thinking I see repeated too often in furtherance of an antisemitic POV:

    * Israel does not practice apartheid and it is not a racist state. "Apartheid" was the name given to a system of oppression and disenfranchisement practiced by white South Africans against their black fellow citizens, in which the goal was to support the extreme wealth of whites by assuring the extreme poverty of blacks. It was a deprivation of human rights in the economic, criminal justice, education, government and every other sense. Blacks in South Africa were living lives virtually as deprived and confined and exploited as those of slaves in the US before the Civil War. Anyone who did not live through the battle to end apartheid should pause and acquire some historical knowledge before they bandy about these terms.

    * Jews are not like Nazis. Jesus H. Christ, what a deeply, deeply offensive comparison. Jews do not believe they are superior; they don't think only Jews go to heaven or that God loves them best. The term "the Chosen people" is meant to convey that God chose them to form a special relationship, one in which Jews would demonstrate a deep and abiding faith in God despite suffering, almost without cessation, the full panoply of miseries that humans can suffer. They are meant to be walking examples of the Book of Job; faith without reward, through sufferings of every kind, across lives, generations, eons. They don't seek destruction of any other group of humans, show up for every liberal cause going, and are more concerned about justice for non-Jews in Israel than anyone else -- a concern they carry into action, even at the expense of the safety of the people of Israel. There is no Guantanamo Bay prison in Israel, where people are held indefinately without trial or charges; there is no Patriot Act, where any citizen's civil rights are suspended if the authorities suspect terrorism, etc.

    The US has lost almost 4,000 people to terror attacks by foreigners on its soil, and reacted with massive fear, creating a whole new cabinet-level agency to deprive everyone of some civil rights in hopes "it will never happen here again". By contrast, Israel accepts that terror attacks are an immutatable fact of life. They can be suppressed, but not stopped. 1,332 people have been killed in Israel by Palestinian violence since 2000. That places the odds of being killed by a terrorist in Israel at about 30 times what it is in the US. The odds of being killed by a foreign terrorist are about as low for Americans as they are for any people on earth, and those for Israelis among the highest. Yet, despite the hysteria and civil rights deprivation with which we reacted to 9/11, we feel free to criticise Israel for its self-defense tactics. It's hubris on steroids.

    * Jews do not view themselves as superior. Anyone with the motivation can become a Jew, if they wish. The preservation of the state of Israel is not about Jewish superiority; it's about Jewish survival. And every human owes the Jews a debt of gratitude, because they are the canaries in the mine. When racism and bigotry begin to rise that might impair YOUR family, you can be certain it impairs Jewish families first. It's the world's oldest and most virulent prejudice. The religion's edicts against assimilation are not about superiority; they are about preserving the Jewish people as a distinct group.

    And Israel does have a right to exist. Among other reasons, it was a promise made to the Jewish people, abandoned to their fates by the Allies in WW II. Almost 50% of the entire Jewish population perished in the concentration camps. New historical facts have revealed the leaders of the Allies knew in 1942 what the Nazis were doing to the Jews, and kept silent for another 4 years.

    'Allied leaders already knew extent of Holocaust by 1942' - Israel National News

    Furthermore, the West NEEDS Israel to exist. The surrounding nations are not friendly to the West and cannot be relied on as allies. but Israel can. They are the front lines on the war on terror and we owe them a great debt.

    * Peace in the Middle East is not a choice Israel can make. IMO, that peace requires an end to human rights violations by the Arab nations against their own people, especially women and children. They need democracy, literacy, and middle class, a more diverse economy and disempowerment of their warrior classes. Israel does more to further these goals, by educating and employing its Arab citizens, than any Arab nation does. The Arab nations are not even willing to shelter or support the refugees from Syria. Those now in power there have almost no humanitarian values, turning anyone -- even children -- into suicide bombers and routinely using children as human shields. The US can help to bring about peace in the Middle East, but not as long as cheap oil is our primary goal.

    Nobody can be BOTH an anti-semite and a liberal; it's not possible, anymore than promoting any other form of racism or bigotry is possible for any authentic liberal. This new wave of anti-Israel talk is not the first time that Jews have been lied about so as to create bad feelings towards them; it's been the hallmark of every campaign of hate they have ever suffered. Don't lend your voice to it. If you find yourself feeling persuaded by the New American Anti-semitism, get educated. Read the Jewish press here in the US or in Israel. Strive for a more balanced view.

    IMO, there has never been a more ethical, compassionate target of unrelenting war and terror attacks than Israel, and they have done almost nothing other than the minimum necessary to survive.
    Last edited by Madeline; 28th April 2017 at 07:54 AM.
    Thanks from Zephyr, OlGuy, Ian Jeffrey and 2 others

  2. #2
    Wrinkly Member Dangermouse's Avatar
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    "Some of my best friends", as they say, but if Israel wants to avoid accusations of being like modern-day nazis, then they shouldn't act like them toward a minority of their non-Jewish population. The current apartheid system is abhorrent and pervasive.

  3. #3
    The Un-Holy One The Man's Avatar
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    Give me a break, Madeline. Hillary Clinton compared Russia to Nazis over the Crimea dispute, and Russians shrugged that off. And there were way more Russians killed by the Nazis than Jews. 10 million Russian civilians vs. 6 million Jews.

    Godwin doesn't work anymore, it appears...

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangermouse View Post
    "Some of my best friends", as they say, but if Israel wants to avoid accusations of being like modern-day nazis, then they shouldn't act like them toward a minority of their non-Jewish population. The current apartheid system is abhorrent and pervasive.
    It is the least restrictive system they can use to protect human life. Despite that, they still educate and employ non-Jews and they enforce all their laws when Jews commit crimes against non-Jews.

    Nobody is happy about the need for segregation. If you have a better idea, please share it. Meanwhile, the separation of non-Jews from Jews in Israel (such as it is) is not even a little bit like the concentration camps the Nazis used, and that is an offensive thing to say. There is absolutely more segregation in the US or the UK than there is in Israel, and for less defensible reasons. Does that make these two old democracies "nazi-like" or just simply flawed?

    Segregation in Israel is not even a little like apartheid was in South Africa, or Jim Crow in the US.

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ar...cle.aspx/19310
    Last edited by Madeline; 28th April 2017 at 09:06 AM.
    Thanks from Zephyr and OlGuy

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    Give me a break, Madeline. Hillary Clinton compared Russia to Nazis over the Crimea dispute, and Russians shrugged that off. And there were way more Russians killed by the Nazis than Jews. 10 million Russian civilians vs. 6 million Jews.

    Godwin doesn't work anymore, it appears...
    Not sure I understand your point. Mine was, people need to be suspect of campaigns designed to gin up hatred of Jews and Israel. The current one uses many, many distortions and falsehoods.

  6. #6
    The Un-Holy One The Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Not sure I understand your point. Mine was, people need to be suspect of campaigns designed to gin up hatred of Jews and Israel. The current one uses many, many distortions and falsehoods.
    My point is, Israel is not special. Lots of countries are hated. Many idiots in tbe US insist on hating Iran, simply because aforementioned Israel tells them to, even though Iran has never done anything to America, other than that hostage thing, decades ago. Many people hate Russia, and some of it is racist too, I've seen Eurotrash call Russians "Mongol" online, implying they are not fully white, more Asian, with their Tatar and Mongol DNA. There are also people who hate China. Etc.

    Haterz gonna hate, you know That's life

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    My point is, Israel is not special. Lots of countries are hated. Many idiots in tbe US insist on hating Iran, simply because aforementioned Israel tells them to, even though Iran has never done anything to America, other than that hostage thing, decades ago. Many people hate Russia, and some of it is racist too, I've seen Eurotrash call Russians "Mongol" online, implying they are not fully white, more Asian, with their Tatar and Mongol DNA. There are also people who hate China. Etc.

    Haterz gonna hate, you know That's life
    Of course other nations and people have suffered as modern Israelis suffer. I am no fan of ranking historical pain, and I am not suggesting Israel has the greatest claim on public sympathy. There is no famine in Israel, for example, and an excellent case could be made that as a nation, Somalia is suffering the most today.

    None of which is the point of this thread. I still feel strongly that attacks on Israel and Jews is a coordinated media campaign to delegitimize that nation among American liberals.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    I have read some trash about Jews, Judaism and Israel in my time, but the comment that took the cake came last week when a member here who is educated, liberal and certainly seems to be a person of great good will towards all humanity stated "Jews are the new Nazis" on account of Israel. I can't tell you how disturbing it is to read this kind of lie, and it is part of an ancient pattern of anti-semitism that stretches back 6,000 years. I don't think the otherwise admirable person who wrote the offending comment is a deliberate antisemite; he probably thinks that's another terrible prejudice that needs putting down. But in fact, he has fallen victim to an especially hateful, insidious and successful campaign of hate speech about Jews and Israel that should make us all afraid.
    If he is an educated person he cannot be a victim of a campaign. In fact he is a part of such campaign.
    He is just a pathetic anti-Semite.

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    If Israel is a country and Jews are people, and those are different things, then criticism of Israel is NOT NOT NOT in any way attacking Jews. It's criticism of the country.

    If Israel and Jews are intertwined, not separate but the same, then that is an apartheid state and must be dismantled. As it's an affront to human rights and civil liberties.

    There's no scenario possible where Israel is not an apartheid state but it's a Jewish state. That's impossible. Doublespeak of the nose basic kind.

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Isalexi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangermouse View Post
    "Some of my best friends", as they say, but if Israel wants to avoid accusations of being like modern-day nazis, then they shouldn't act like them toward a minority of their non-Jewish population. The current apartheid system is abhorrent and pervasive.
    I suggest you visit Israel and see how the non-Jewish population does a lot better under Israeli rule. It's so amazing how people will attack Israel but yet not the countries that blatantly exploit and diminish their population. If only they held these countries to the same standard
    Thanks from Madeline

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