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Thread: Third Party?

  1. #51
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    I disapprove of open primaries. A primary's purpose is for each party to choose its candidate. If you want to vote in a particular primary, register for that party.

    E.g., I know someone who registers as a Democrat even though he really is not one, because in his state the Republicans are so outnumbered it rarely matters who the Republican candidate is. He also is a one-issue voter, so it is relatively easy for him to vote on that basis, in the primary (Democratic) as well as in the general election (Republican).
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  2. #52
    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    I disapprove of open primaries. A primary's purpose is for each party to choose its candidate. If you want to vote in a particular primary, register for that party.

    E.g., I know someone who registers as a Democrat even though he really is not one, because in his state the Republicans are so outnumbered it rarely matters who the Republican candidate is. He also is a one-issue voter, so it is relatively easy for him to vote on that basis, in the primary (Democratic) as well as in the general election (Republican).
    Some Democrats in southern states vote in Republican primaries simply because it is the de facto election for them. When it's a foregone conclusion that the Republicans will win the general election, it's the only way for them to have a voice in the selection process.
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  3. #53
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    I disapprove of open primaries. A primary's purpose is for each party to choose its candidate. If you want to vote in a particular primary, register for that party.

    E.g., I know someone who registers as a Democrat even though he really is not one, because in his state the Republicans are so outnumbered it rarely matters who the Republican candidate is. He also is a one-issue voter, so it is relatively easy for him to vote on that basis, in the primary (Democratic) as well as in the general election (Republican).
    There are certainly pros and cons to it. We have open primaries and its nice because independents get a say as well. But then again would we have so many indies if they weren't allowed to participate in primaries? I certainly wouldn't be a registered indie if I lived in a closed primary state. Also, we will be in a situation come 2020, where non Trump republicans in open primary states "could" effectively swing a democratic primary. For example, if they disapprove of Trump and want a different option they will take a democratic ballot and vote. What a republican voter desires in a candidate could be vastly different than what a democratic voter wants. So it could push the democratic nominee further right if enough cross over. Or it could be used by pro Trump voters to choose the weakest candidate to run against.

  4. #54
    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    There are certainly pros and cons to it. We have open primaries and its nice because independents get a say as well. But then again would we have so many indies if they weren't allowed to participate in primaries? I certainly wouldn't be a registered indie if I lived in a closed primary state. Also, we will be in a situation come 2020, where non Trump republicans in open primary states "could" effectively swing a democratic primary. For example, if they disapprove of Trump and want a different option they will take a democratic ballot and vote. What a republican voter desires in a candidate could be vastly different than what a democratic voter wants. So it could push the democratic nominee further right if enough cross over. Or it could be used by pro Trump voters to choose the weakest candidate to run against.
    I think that primary elections should be open to all registered voters, so long as the elections are publicly funded. As a matter of fact, I'd prefer that I get to vote in both primaries.

    That said, I do understand why the parties only want participation from their own party members. Fine. Let them pay for the process themselves, and then they can limit participation in any manner they see fit.

  5. #55
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    There are certainly pros and cons to it. We have open primaries and its nice because independents get a say as well.
    That's like saying you despise a club and do not want to join, but still want a say in its rules and leadership.

    The primary is a partisan nomination process, held to choose who will represent the various parties in the actual election.
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  6. #56
    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    I disapprove of open primaries. A primary's purpose is for each party to choose its candidate. If you want to vote in a particular primary, register for that party.
    That is not an option in many states, including my own.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    That's like saying you despise a club and do not want to join, but still want a say in its rules and leadership.

    The primary is a partisan nomination process, held to choose who will represent the various parties in the actual election.
    Which is why the parties should be responsible for holding their own primary elections, rather than sticking the taxpayers with the bill. Why should independent voters have to finance the operation of political parties?
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  8. #58
    Veteran Member bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    Well, besides what the author of the article mentioned, our system is not conducive to more that two factions. Even if you were to be elected as a independent you'd still have to caucus with one party or the other to get anything done.
    well, to make a multi-party system viable, it would require a change in the constitution and and dramatic change in election rules. I don't see that happening short of a change in the system we use. might happen with a constitutional convention of the states, but that would open an interesting can of worms - not that I'm afraid of worms.

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    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    well, to make a multi-party system viable, it would require a change in the constitution and and dramatic change in election rules. I don't see that happening short of a change in the system we use. might happen with a constitutional convention of the states, but that would open an interesting can of worms - not that I'm afraid of worms.
    Can you imagine the crap they would start proposing if we had a convention?

    "Lets eliminate federal income tax so we all can tax the people in our own states and keep that money".

    The commerce clause would be gone, so would the supremacy clause.

  10. #60
    Veteran Member bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Can you imagine the crap they would start proposing if we had a convention?

    "Lets eliminate federal income tax so we all can tax the people in our own states and keep that money".

    The commerce clause would be gone, so would the supremacy clause.
    they may propose pretty much anything. getting it passed would be a problem.
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