Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 31
Thanks Tree29Thanks

Thread: Women challenging the #MeToo movement

  1. #1
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    45,459
    Thanks
    27537

    From
    New Hampshire

    Women challenging the #MeToo movement

    Hearing a lot more of this lately. Thoughts?

    "I am concerned that we are throwing knee-touching into the same basket as rape, which does a grievous disservice to mere knee-touchers and rape victims both. I am concerned that we are increasingly wont to confuse genuine abuse of power in the workplace with often distant memories of men who have made failed – ‘unwanted’ – passes. I am concerned that we are casting women as irremediably scarred by even minor, casual advances, and as incapable of competently and sensitively handling the commonplace instances in which men are drawn to them sexually and the feeling doesn’t happen to be mutual.

    I am concerned that sex itself seems increasingly to be seen as dirty, and as a violation, a form of assault, so that we’re repackaging an old prudery in progressive wrapping paper. I am concerned that we are well on our way to demonising, if not criminalising, all male desire.

    Turbocharged by social media, #MeToo may have gone too far. One of the eight charges against Sen Franken was squeezing a woman’s waist while posing for a photo. Rather than bringing the sexes together with improved mutual understanding, we are in danger of driving the sexes apart. This is not what feminism was supposed to be about. It was supposed to be about empowering women, not infantilising them. Any woman can now point the finger at any man and make any claim she wants about something that may – or may not – have happened to her 10 or 20 years ago. That allegation, whether there is any evidence to back it up or not, is enough to end a man’s reputation, his career or even his life. We are seeing an end to the principles of natural justice, innocence until proven guilty and fair trials.

    Telling women that their lives are a chamber of sexual horrors, and telling men that they are part of an evil oppressor class, is not the path to equality.

    Meet the women worried about #MeToo | Feminism | spiked
    Thanks from johnflesh, MaryAnne and StanStill

  2. #2
    Shitposting Rank 4 Missle Command Champion johnflesh's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    21,240
    Thanks
    11456

    From
    Colorado
    I don't disagree. Anytime we have an opportunity to fix something, its an equal opportunity to screw it all up.
    Thanks from bajisima and Puzzling Evidence

  3. #3
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    45,459
    Thanks
    27537

    From
    New Hampshire
    Quote Originally Posted by johnflesh View Post
    I don't disagree. Anytime we have an opportunity to fix something, its an equal opportunity to screw it all up.
    I think at the very least, new guidelines and exact metrics will come out of this. Vagueness and uncertainty will perhaps be gone.
    Thanks from johnflesh and MaryAnne

  4. #4
    Chaos in fourteen lines Minotaur's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    20,941
    Thanks
    17157

    From
    USA
    I'm afraid that is BS thinking. While there are some issues that are minor compared to others there is no place on the workforce for unwanted touching even if it isn't rape or criminal. The issue to me is changing the mentality in business so women have a fair shot at being taken seriously as professionals. That can't happen if co-workers see them as someone to grope. This is a lot more serious than the writer seems to understand.

    While we don't have to believe all accusers we do have to count the amount of accusers to get a hint of whether the co-worker is a groper. Groping gets you fired in business so there really is nothing new in this. One complaint in business may not get someone fired but more than one pretty much gets them fired. The rest of her examples that are actually criminal are covered by law.

    I appreciate the distinction as it is important however all unquestionable sexual harassment and assaults need to be dealt with.
    Thanks from PACE

  5. #5
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    45,459
    Thanks
    27537

    From
    New Hampshire
    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
    I'm afraid that is BS thinking. While there are some issues that are minor compared to others there is no place on the workforce for unwanted touching even if it isn't rape or criminal. The issue to me is changing the mentality in business so women have a fair shot at being taken seriously as professionals. That can't happen if co-workers see them as someone to grope. This is a lot more serious than the writer seems to understand.

    While we don't have to believe all accusers we do have to count the amount of accusers to get a hint of whether the co-worker is a groper. Groping gets you fired in business so there really is nothing new in this. One complaint in business may not get someone fired but more than one pretty much gets them fired. The rest of her examples that are actually criminal are covered by law.

    I appreciate the distinction as it is important however all unquestionable sexual harassment and assaults need to be dealt with.
    Agree but I think both zero tolerance and tolerance levels are dooming this movement. A woman felt groped because Al Franken squeezed her waist during a photo. Or Garrison Keiller because he rubbed a back of a sobbing coworker. That takes the movement into crazy land where everyone has been groped. All that does is say "my groping means the same to me as your rape does." It demeans it all and the end effect is the same for the men. Whats different about the outcomes of Weinstein and Franken? Both had to leave their professions. Massive differences why.
    Thanks from Minotaur and HCProf

  6. #6
    Banned Camp
    Joined
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    21,866
    Thanks
    12122

    I do kind of agree, I think if a guys does something a woman feels uncomfortable, she should kindly tell him to stop. If the guys persists, that now gets to harassment and assault.

    Simple flirting should not be seen as sexual assault, How is anybody supposed to get together? Oh, and when its a coworker, you should be even more cautious.

    I think some people completely lack social cues to even be aware of uncomfort in others
    Thanks from HCProf, Eve1, johnflesh and 1 others

  7. #7
    Veteran Member PACE's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    24,525
    Thanks
    20636

    From
    None of your business
    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Hearing a lot more of this lately. Thoughts?

    "I am concerned that we are throwing knee-touching into the same basket as rape, which does a grievous disservice to mere knee-touchers and rape victims both. I am concerned that we are increasingly wont to confuse genuine abuse of power in the workplace with often distant memories of men who have made failed – ‘unwanted’ – passes. I am concerned that we are casting women as irremediably scarred by even minor, casual advances, and as incapable of competently and sensitively handling the commonplace instances in which men are drawn to them sexually and the feeling doesn’t happen to be mutual.

    I am concerned that sex itself seems increasingly to be seen as dirty, and as a violation, a form of assault, so that we’re repackaging an old prudery in progressive wrapping paper. I am concerned that we are well on our way to demonising, if not criminalising, all male desire.

    Turbocharged by social media, #MeToo may have gone too far. One of the eight charges against Sen Franken was squeezing a woman’s waist while posing for a photo. Rather than bringing the sexes together with improved mutual understanding, we are in danger of driving the sexes apart. This is not what feminism was supposed to be about. It was supposed to be about empowering women, not infantilising them. Any woman can now point the finger at any man and make any claim she wants about something that may – or may not – have happened to her 10 or 20 years ago. That allegation, whether there is any evidence to back it up or not, is enough to end a man’s reputation, his career or even his life. We are seeing an end to the principles of natural justice, innocence until proven guilty and fair trials.

    Telling women that their lives are a chamber of sexual horrors, and telling men that they are part of an evil oppressor class, is not the path to equality.

    Meet the women worried about #MeToo | Feminism | spiked
    Here's my thoughts:


    Brock Turner, the former Stanford University student and champion swimmer who was found guilty in March 2016 of sexually assaulting an unconscious woman on campus, is appealing his conviction.

    A 172-page brief filed on Friday by Mr. Turner’s lawyer, Eric Multhaup, said Mr. Turner did not get a fair trial for several reasons, including the exclusion of testimony by character witnesses who spoke of his swimming career and his performance in school and attested to his honesty, the appeal said.

    About 60 pages focus heavily on how intoxicated the victim, known as Emily Doe, was on the night of the attack.

    Mr. Multhaup declined to offer a comment beyond the brief.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/02/u...er-appeal.html


    When you see the intro to an article about a convicted rapist this way, the issue is VERY relevant, it is VERY real and it MUST be addressed; there is no reason for this kind of communication, so when the media starts portraying rapists as rapists and not star swimmers,,,, maybe we'll get somewhere.
    Thanks from Minotaur and Panzareta

  8. #8
    Veteran Member TNVolunteer73's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    32,278
    Thanks
    8276

    From
    TN
    Strange how women now are beginning to oppose the #Metoo movement, only after a Woman which is also a Democrat became the first Casualty of the movement for the 2018 election cycle.


    They are going WTF it was not suppose to attack women and/or Democrats

  9. #9
    Chaos in fourteen lines Minotaur's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    20,941
    Thanks
    17157

    From
    USA
    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Agree but I think both zero tolerance and tolerance levels are dooming this movement. A woman felt groped because Al Franken squeezed her waist during a photo. Or Garrison Keiller because he rubbed a back of a sobbing coworker. That takes the movement into crazy land where everyone has been groped. All that does is say "my groping means the same to me as your rape does." It demeans it all and the end effect is the same for the men. Whats different about the outcomes of Weinstein and Franken? Both had to leave their professions. Massive differences why.
    Franken had enough other complaints not to worry about squeezing a waist or like the second example, rubbing the back of a sobbing woman or man. Neither would get someone fired as a stand alone. That part remains the same. It is the propensity aka multiple complaints. Even with that, taking all unwanted touching out of the workplace is a must. Career minded women need to be treated the same as their male counter part and if we were honest about all this, no male would be squeezing a male co-workers waist or rubbing his back.
    Last edited by Minotaur; 18th December 2017 at 01:35 PM.

  10. #10
    SPOCK! Puzzling Evidence's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    21,149
    Thanks
    9053

    From
    Away from sharp objects>
    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
    I'm afraid that is BS thinking. While there are some issues that are minor compared to others there is no place on the workforce for unwanted touching even if it isn't rape or criminal. The issue to me is changing the mentality in business so women have a fair shot at being taken seriously as professionals. That can't happen if co-workers see them as someone to grope. This is a lot more serious than the writer seems to understand.

    While we don't have to believe all accusers we do have to count the amount of accusers to get a hint of whether the co-worker is a groper. Groping gets you fired in business so there really is nothing new in this. One complaint in business may not get someone fired but more than one pretty much gets them fired. The rest of her examples that are actually criminal are covered by law.

    I appreciate the distinction as it is important however all unquestionable sexual harassment and assaults need to be dealt with.
    Your synopsisis woefully incorrect. Some women are making absolutely ridiculous charges that are costing men jobs. Ultimately, it will cost good women jobs when men decide that they do not want to risk a lawsuit or their marriage.

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. #METOO Will Devastate the Democrats
    By John T Ford in forum Political Discussion
    Replies: 190
    Last Post: 10th May 2018, 04:18 AM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 14th December 2017, 05:46 PM
  3. Downside of the #MeToo movement
    By bajisima in forum Political Discussion
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 4th December 2017, 09:36 AM
  4. Are we botching the #Metoo movement?
    By bajisima in forum Current Events
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 17th November 2017, 05:53 AM
  5. A Failure of the Women's Movement
    By Michael J in forum Political Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 23rd June 2011, 11:28 AM

Tags for this Thread


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed