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  1. #21
    Veteran Member Southern Dad's Avatar
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    The LDS church teaches that it is the responsibility of each patriarch to store enough to be able to feed his family and his neighbors for a period of time. Right in downtown Salt Lake City they have grain storage silos that would be used to feed the population of Utah.
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  2. #22
    Veteran Member TNVolunteer73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    I'm a bit of an oddball, since I'm a liberal prepper. For those who don't know, preppers are people who are unusually focused on preparing for disaster scenarios. It covers a wide range of behaviors from those who have just-slightly-more-than-usual gear in case of common crises like extended blackouts, all the way up to people who have fallout shelters and vast paramilitary arsenals.

    I'm towards the low end of that scale. My prep consists of having a generator, a week's worth of gasoline, a decently equipped bug-out bag, a big first-aid kit, fifty gallons of fresh water, several months of dry food, a couple canisters of propane for cooking, a couple hard-copy books on survival, a big bottle of antibiotics in the freezer, a revolver, a rifle/shotgun combo, plenty of ammunition, a thousand dollars in cash, three thousand dollars in gold, some water purification equipment, and a decent amount of know-how when it comes to first aid, camping, foraging, etc. In what preppers call a SHTF scenario (where there's no public utilities and you can't count on the police, for an extended period), my family would be in relatively good shape for a couple months.

    As part of educating myself about what I'd need, I immersed myself in prepper webpages, podcasts, and the like. For the most part, it's a lot of crazy far-right-wing types. Especially in the late Obama era, the prepper world was driven by conservative conspiracy theorists who not only expected the world to fall apart shortly, but who seemed to have a barely-veiled eagerness to watch it happen. Now, with liberals concerned about the tone in America under Trump, and concerned about what could happen with an unhinged narcissist rattling the nuclear saber, I see a growing number of liberals thinking in prepping terms. However, what I don't see is the eagerness with which conservatives so often think about the SHTF scenarios. With liberals, it usually seems like an over-abundance of caution in the face of fears they hope won't come to pass, whereas with too many conservatives it seems to be about laying the groundwork for a Mad Max fantasy of back-to-basics manhood.

    The other difference I see is a greater realism among liberals about the importance of community in a crisis. Many conservative preppers have a romantic vision of themselves as the rugged individualist surviving in the wilderness as society comes crashing down. But when you look at real historical crises, like people surviving in the bombed-out ruins after WWII, or following major earthquakes or plagues, the single most important tool for survival was having a small community of people you could depend on, whether that's your neighbors or your extended family. Even a healthy male in his prime is asking for trouble trying to survive solo in a crisis. All you need is an ill-timed flu or broken bone and you're going to be lucky to survive. And if you've got kids to look after, trying to do it without community help is going to be all the tougher. In a realistic crisis scenario, you may need to head out and stand in line for hours for a food ration, or travel far and wide trying to forage food, and in that scenario you're going to want to know that the more vulnerable members of your family have plenty of people around who will watch out for them in your absence.

    That's why I suspect that if things really were to fall apart, a lot of conservative and libertarian preppers would be in trouble. Having done their mental prep work based on post-apocalyptic fiction scenarios, rather than informed by real historical crises, they may be poorly prepared. Having a hardened bunker is of little use if you get sick and there's nobody there to take care of you. And that's not even to get into those who spend huge amount of money arming themselves to the teeth with assault weapons, and yet will be effectively disabled the minute their diabetes medicine runs out.
    Nothing wrong with preparing for the worst and hoping for the best.

    What happens if you are prepared for the worst and nothing happens. you have sacrificed little for peace of mind.

    If the worst happens, you are prepared.

    Remember the Boy Scout Motto

    Be Prepared, Do your best.
    Thanks from Arkady

  3. #23
    Veteran Member TNVolunteer73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    The LDS church teaches that it is the responsibility of each patriarch to store enough to be able to feed his family and his neighbors for a period of time. Right in downtown Salt Lake City they have grain storage silos that would be used to feed the population of Utah.
    So does the 7th Day Adventist
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Its not uncommon for us to lose power for a week up here also due to lines coming down with trees. A couple years ago when we had all that snow and ice we lost power for 14 days. People could die in conditions like that and have all your pipes freeze and cause thousands of dollars in damage. It pays to have prep work ahead.
    My parents, up in Maine, had an ice storm in the 90s that knocked out their power for 20 days. Fortunately, their house used a pair of wood stoves as the main heating system, so they were able to stay warm, do some cooking, etc. But, after that, practically everyone in the neighborhood got a generator.
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  5. #25
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    My parents, up in Maine, had an ice storm in the 90s that knocked out their power for 20 days. Fortunately, their house used a pair of wood stoves as the main heating system, so they were able to stay warm, do some cooking, etc. But, after that, practically everyone in the neighborhood got a generator.
    Yea its just crazy to not be prepared up here. Remember reading up in Maine how after weeks without power and impassable roads, the stores had no food and people couldnt get there. Some had supplies but others were just hunting and sharing what they got with neighbors. Its just that way sometimes. City people just wouldnt get it.

  6. #26
    Veteran Member Southern Dad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
    So does the 7th Day Adventist
    Now imagine the country after something happens, the dominate forces are Mormon and 7th Day Adventists.

  7. #27
    Anarquistador StanStill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    Now imagine the country after something happens, the dominate forces are Mormon and 7th Day Adventists.
    What is "something"? I just don't see anything that could actually cause the entire social structure of the US to crumble, which wouldn't also mean the end of life on Earth.

  8. #28
    Veteran Member Southern Dad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanStill View Post
    What is "something"? I just don't see anything that could actually cause the entire social structure of the US to crumble, which wouldn't also mean the end of life on Earth.
    Then you lack vision. Imagine this country, if the power grid failed. Imagine this country if we were hit by an EMP strike resulting in not only a power grid failure but everything with a computer chip that isn't hardened. We'd be partying like it was 1899. Think of how many people have nothing stored, nothing prepped. Their next meal is at the grocery store and they buy it one week at a time. How about the people who count on a direct deposit every month or a transfer to an EBT card. What happens when those things no longer work?

  9. #29
    Anarquistador StanStill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    Then you lack vision. Imagine this country, if the power grid failed. Imagine this country if we were hit by an EMP strike resulting in not only a power grid failure but everything with a computer chip that isn't hardened. We'd be partying like it was 1899. Think of how many people have nothing stored, nothing prepped. Their next meal is at the grocery store and they buy it one week at a time. How about the people who count on a direct deposit every month or a transfer to an EBT card. What happens when those things no longer work?
    The knowledge of how to survive without EBT cards isn't lost forever. We can still survive like it was 1899, because we did in 1899. An EMP strike that takes out the ENTIRE power grid of the ENTIRE US? There is no such thing as the entire power grid of the US. There are dozens of dozens of power grids. And we could survive without any of them, or all of them without descending into a chaotic Lord of the Flies scenario, because we did for a hundred years in the US and on back since the beginning of civilization before the US existed.

    I have no problem with preparing for power outages and that kind of thing, but preparing for a complete descent into precivilization seems a bit... ludicrous. It's like the secular version of the End Of Days prophecies.

  10. #30
    Veteran Member Southern Dad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanStill View Post
    The knowledge of how to survive without EBT cards isn't lost forever. We can still survive like it was 1899, because we did in 1899. An EMP strike that takes out the ENTIRE power grid of the ENTIRE US? There is no such thing as the entire power grid of the US. There are dozens of dozens of power grids. And we could survive without any of them, or all of them without descending into a chaotic Lord of the Flies scenario, because we did for a hundred years in the US and on back since the beginning of civilization before the US existed.

    I have no problem with preparing for power outages and that kind of thing, but preparing for a complete descent into precivilization seems a bit... ludicrous. It's like the secular version of the End Of Days prophecies.
    You stated that you could not think of any examples. I gave you a couple. Yes, we survived for hundreds of years before power grids. How do you think things would go now, if we were suddenly plunged into darkness? We would not know if it extended to just our town, the county, the state, the region, or the whole country. All we would know is nothing is working. You think it is ludicrous? North Korea and Iran are working on nuclear devices. Russia and China already have them. What would a nuclear detonation in our atmosphere result in?

    Did you read news reports or watch the television news media after Hurricane Katrina hit the New Orleans and the levies failed? Remember the lawlessness of the dome? That was a localized event with outside media still getting through and help on the way. Puerto Rico has seen a serious increase in violent crime since the storms hit. Again, there was outside communication and help coming in those situations. What if the lights just went out and there was no communication?

    Would you take from others to feed your family?

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