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Thread: Will Trump Do Something Worse?

  1. #51
    "Mr. Original". the watchman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    *sigh* You don't get how Trump works, you literally got played. He does something to get a reaction, which he can then shift so the reactionaries call for what he wanted from the start.
    so, you're claiming that Trump traumatized the minds of "tender aged" kids as some kind of game? So, what is it exactly that you think he really wants? You're right about one thing. Anyone with any sense of humanity has no idea how Trump works. He's just one sick demented ass hole.
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  2. #52
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Will Trump Do Something Worse?

    Quote Originally Posted by BitterPill View Post
    Fair enough.



    Then perhaps all children should be removed from their families to keep them out of trafficker's hands.

    I'd be against that proposal as well.
    This is a serious issue, and it is complex... And it doesn't help that about 90% of what the media says on the issue is complete fiction.

    Some kids are sent with no actual guardians, because the parents can only afford 1 ticket.

    One instance, it came out, was a woman that left a working husband and 3 other kids to get US welfare.

    Frankly, I don't even have a dog in those details, I don't particularly care about what happens at your southern border, aside from giving my opinions in reference to how I would prefer to see things handled.

    Let's forget about Trump or Obama for a second.

    A country should be able to control the flow of people in and out. A few hundred years from now, if nationalism becomes an irrelevancy (becoming a multiplanetary civilization for example) then it won't matter.

    The thing is, there are many of these people that are being used, for a wide range of reasons from mutual benefits to slavery circumstance (or worse.... Beware if you really want to dig here, it doesn't take too much depth before people with conscience lose sleep)
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  3. #53
    Veteran Member HenryPorter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    I feel bad for my colleagues on the right, who find they have to champion someone as embarrassingly unconservative as Donald Trump. It must be very difficult to find your position lead by someone whose capacity for ruthlessness and mendacity is so high. I'm actually really glad we don't have a LEFT-wing populist swamp creature running the country. I like to think that we on the left would eschew someone who lies and dissembles and victimizes the weak, but I have no confidence in that we could not fall for such a demagog.

    Now Trump has done something that very few people can defend, something so horrible that even his supporters denounce his action.

    My question is, how long will it be before he does something worse? Is it possible? Is he PLANNING something worse because he thinks it plays so well for his base? I think scenes of crying children and immigrants fighting with ICE officers in sanctuary cities is just around the corner.

    I think David Brooks is right in this column, where he points out that Trump and his closest supporters aren't conservatives, they are merely anti-liberal trolls. They really have no agenda beyond countering whatever people on the left seek to do. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/18/o...eparation.html

    Trumpists don't oppose oppressive government power--they merely seek to harness it for their own ends.
    I agree completely although I don't think I see them as "merely" anti-liberal, its far more sinister than merely.

  4. #54
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BitterPill View Post
    Trump did blink. He rescinded his zero-tolerance policy.
    Think chess. It's not a blink.

    I know many think Trump is malicious. (He is a hard ass, but in the build you up sense.

    Trump wants to fix immigration, but he can't do anything and not be hated for it. Also, Trump has to do everything BY THE BOOk since most everyone is out for his head.

    Anyway, the story of family separations comes out, trump creates a situation where action is demanded. He makes an executive order, doing what he wanted in the first place, but with the support of people who would oppose his every move.

  5. #55
    Ignorance Is Virtue BitterPill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    This is a serious issue, and it is complex... And it doesn't help that about 90% of what the media says on the issue is complete fiction.

    Some kids are sent with no actual guardians, because the parents can only afford 1 ticket.

    One instance, it came out, was a woman that left a working husband and 3 other kids to get US welfare.

    Frankly, I don't even have a dog in those details, I don't particularly care about what happens at your southern border, aside from giving my opinions in reference to how I would prefer to see things handled.

    Let's forget about Trump or Obama for a second.

    A country should be able to control the flow of people in and out. A few hundred years from now, if nationalism becomes an irrelevancy (becoming a multiplanetary civilization for example) then it won't matter.

    The thing is, there are many of these people that are being used, for a wide range of reasons from mutual benefits to slavery circumstance (or worse.... Beware if you really want to dig here, it doesn't take too much depth before people with conscience lose sleep)
    Naturally, children sent without parents aren't separated from their parents by our government, and that is the government practice I want to see ended. Also, there is a chance many of the undocumented are actually refugees. They certainly deserve their cases to be considered, but Trump's zero-tolerance policy doesn't let them.

  6. #56
    Ignorance Is Virtue BitterPill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    Think chess. It's not a blink.

    I know many think Trump is malicious. (He is a hard ass, but in the build you up sense.

    Trump wants to fix immigration, but he can't do anything and not be hated for it. Also, Trump has to do everything BY THE BOOk since most everyone is out for his head.

    Anyway, the story of family separations comes out, trump creates a situation where action is demanded. He makes an executive order, doing what he wanted in the first place, but with the support of people who would oppose his every move.
    When speaking of Trump and the games he plays, I think it best to use snakes-and-ladders as metaphor which, coincident with chess, was also created in India.

    So, Trump creates a policy crisis, then Trump magically solves the policy crisis, and I am supposed to be impressed? I mean, aside from the separating of children from their mothers', certainly malevolent and malicious, his intent to fool and mislead me with his juvenile antics isn't what I would call evil. It's just plain stupid.

    No way I'm going to support stupid or evil.
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  7. #57
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BitterPill View Post
    Naturally, children sent without parents aren't separated from their parents by our government, and that is the government practice I want to see ended. Also, there is a chance many of the undocumented are actually refugees. They certainly deserve their cases to be considered, but Trump's zero-tolerance policy doesn't let them.
    The ideal would be that these countries are livable and promote at least a vibrant middle class who is not on the edge of starvation.

    Mexico would be having an issue with potential refugees while corruption remains an issue. (Please don't pretend that Mexico is not corrupt)

    Canada and US have treaties precluding refugees between.

    Really, when a system has been so rife with abuse, sometimes it require a a reset. It's unfortunate and there is suffering, not in the long run the benefits are outweighed

  8. #58
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BitterPill View Post
    When speaking of Trump and the games he plays, I think it best to use snakes-and-ladders as metaphor which, coincident with chess, was also created in India.

    So, Trump creates a policy crisis, then Trump magically solves the policy crisis, and I am supposed to be impressed? I mean, aside from the separating of children from their mothers', certainly malevolent and malicious, his intent to fool and mislead me with his juvenile antics isn't what I would call evil. It's just plain stupid.

    No way I'm going to support stupid or evil.
    You are wrong to underestimate Trump.

    Trump is involved in a very dangerous game, he did not have to play. He could have run his companies and his kids and grand kids would be just fine.

    Trump did not CREATE the crisis; he did create a situation where the media would focus on it to demonize him (they are running out of ways), then use that circumstance to garner support for what he wanted to do in the first place.

    Why do you think Trump is so focused on the wall? Where so many before him stated the same as an empty campaign promise.

    Look at the evil that has been deterred in North Korea. Yes, it will be decades before they are on the same page as their relatives to the south, but massive leaps have been made.

    Everything has to go through the process. There's no quick fix to decades old issues.

  9. #59
    Human Bean KnotaFrayed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    I feel bad for my colleagues on the right, who find they have to champion someone as embarrassingly unconservative as Donald Trump. It must be very difficult to find your position lead by someone whose capacity for ruthlessness and mendacity is so high. I'm actually really glad we don't have a LEFT-wing populist swamp creature running the country. I like to think that we on the left would eschew someone who lies and dissembles and victimizes the weak, but I have no confidence in that we could not fall for such a demagog.

    Now Trump has done something that very few people can defend, something so horrible that even his supporters denounce his action.

    My question is, how long will it be before he does something worse? Is it possible? Is he PLANNING something worse because he thinks it plays so well for his base? I think scenes of crying children and immigrants fighting with ICE officers in sanctuary cities is just around the corner.

    I think David Brooks is right in this column, where he points out that Trump and his closest supporters aren't conservatives, they are merely anti-liberal trolls. They really have no agenda beyond countering whatever people on the left seek to do. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/18/o...eparation.html

    Trumpists don't oppose oppressive government power--they merely seek to harness it for their own ends.
    Trump is losing his mind (if he has not lost it) and his supporters could care less or they are too blind with partisanship to see anything, but Trump as a tool for their personal agendas......How is it possible that people are not connecting the dots to how absurd and insane it is, for Donald Trump (and his supporters) to blame everything wrong in this nation on "elites", the CHEER as Donald Trump claims to be more elite, than the elites????????

    https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/...man-newday.cnn

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.e0cd3eefe93b


    In essence, Trump is leading his followers in hatred of elites and then brags about being the top elitist and they not only fail to connect dots, the cheer him on......Are they cheering his hatred of elites (him as the elite of the elite) or are they so drunk with partisanship they aren't really listening to what he is saying or how patently absurd it is. (see video below beginning at minute 56) Watch entire video also to see how Trump plays his audience.

    They don't want to hear the truth or see if Trump is telling the truth, because it would mean facing something different than Trump tells them.




    The man is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO needy when it comes to someone liking him.........

    Sadly, most people do NOT like him, ironically because he's so desperate to make people believe he's something he's not, he turns those who look into the truth, off.

    "Promises Kept"?????? Who did Trump make a point of saying was going to pay for his Wall?

    What of what is said in these rallies, relates to reality outside the rally and why is Trump so obsessed with crowds, the "evil" media and focusing on himself?


    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ind-donald-tr/

    http://www.politifact.com/personalit...yruling/false/




    "The Democrats want open borders" Did Trump and his supporters, ever take a history class?


    "Americans encouraged relatively free and open immigration during the 18th and early 19th centuries, and rarely questioned that policy until the late 1800s. After certain states passed immigration laws following the Civil War, the Supreme Court in 1875 declared regulation of immigration a federal responsibility. Thus, as the number of immigrants rose in the 1880s and economic conditions in some areas worsened, Congress began to pass immigration legislation."

    "The Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 and Alien Contract Labor laws of 1885 and 1887 prohibited certain laborers from immigrating to the United States. The general Immigration Act of 1882 levied a head tax of fifty cents on each immigrant and blocked (or excluded) the entry of idiots, lunatics, convicts, and persons likely to become a public charge."

    "These national immigration laws created the need for new federal enforcement authorities. In the 1880s, state boards or commissions enforced immigration law with direction from U.S. Treasury Department officials. At the Federal level, U.S. Customs Collectors at each port of entry collected the head tax from immigrants while "Chinese Inspectors" enforced the Chinese Exclusion Act."

    https://www.uscis.gov/history-and-ge...ation-policies


    "He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...f_Independence





    "Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

    https://www.nps.gov/stli/learn/histo...e/colossus.htm


    Trump has already proven the lengths he will go to "win" and get praise for himself. The latter, being something he has a very noticeable problem with.

    https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/syc-20366662




    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-d...tar-1522963827

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-d...ent-1526493667

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudo...f_Donald_Trump

    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgo...ode-democracy/
    Last edited by KnotaFrayed; 21st June 2018 at 10:48 PM.

  10. #60
    Ignorance Is Virtue BitterPill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    You are wrong to underestimate Trump.

    Trump is involved in a very dangerous game, he did not have to play. He could have run his companies and his kids and grand kids would be just fine.

    Trump did not CREATE the crisis; he did create a situation where the media would focus on it to demonize him (they are running out of ways), then use that circumstance to garner support for what he wanted to do in the first place.

    Why do you think Trump is so focused on the wall? Where so many before him stated the same as an empty campaign promise.

    Look at the evil that has been deterred in North Korea. Yes, it will be decades before they are on the same page as their relatives to the south, but massive leaps have been made.

    Everything has to go through the process. There's no quick fix to decades old issues.
    Sure, Trump is in way over his head in a game he is woefully unequipped to play, and he did create a crisis, but the public does not want to see children ripped from their mothers. That's why Trump ended his cruel and inhuman practice which, mind you, makes Trump look weak, so I don't know where you get the idea Trump garnered support for anything except from alt-right and racist kooks, and who gives a shit about them but their mothers?

    Moving on, Trump wants a wall for his personal vanity's sake, and I don't recall anyone proposing a wall before Trump did, but perhaps you are referring to a Canadian candidate who wanted to build a wall.

    And with North Korea, I haven't a clue about what 'massive leaps' have been made, the ones you speak of. Do you mean dismantling their already destroyed nuclear test site? Maybe legitimizing Un on the world stage could be considered a massive leap, but only for Un and his murderous regime. Perhaps you can fill me in on the particulars so I have a clue to what passes for a 'massive leap' in your estimation.
    Last edited by BitterPill; 21st June 2018 at 11:10 PM.
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