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Thread: Are Republicans the Dog that Caught the Car?

  1. #11
    A Blue Dog Jets Fan Jets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    Question, Jets! Which party do you think is the most despised right now?
    The party in power is generally more despised. In this case the GOP. Why, because the buck stops with them. Unless the minority party is blatantly obstructing bills, the excuses for not passing legislation are zero. That said, it’s degrees of resentment because many people are disgusted with our two party status quo known as dumb and dumber. If you ask certain people they would say the Democratic Party for the reason outlined in the last sentence in addition to partisan bias.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    I do not see any way that electoral scenario comes to pass. They certainly are not going to start voting Democratic.
    Some might because lots of social conservatives would start looking at other issues, like inequality, as greater problems were their concerns about abortion and gay rights rendered less smelly to them. But I'm not suggesting they'd vote Dem as that they wouldn't vote at all or at least they would not provide the organizing muscle they now do.

    My argument is predicated on something "mainstream" Republicans discovered in 2016, which is that their members aren't nearly as conservative as they thought. Trumpists don't care about free trade and aren't really motivated by the same things as the Chamber of Commerce. Those people provide the money but not the votes or ground-level organization. They don't want their SS or medicare cut. They don't really care that much about tax rates (beyond the much more general idea that high taxes are bad). And they have come to take over the party at this point because the party cannot win without them.

    A key element of GOP politics for the whole of my adult lifetime has been about the boiling resentments of liberal social policies. The whole point of that game is NOT to resolve the issues. So long as they can appear to oppose abortion and gay rights and civil rights, etc, they don't have to actually solve those problems, and if they do, they stop having issues they can sell to the Trump portion of their base.

    If you make your living complaining about a problem, the worst thing you can do is actually solve the problem. It's like selling a product with a particular feature that attracts new buyers, only to see your competitor make that feature standard equipment on all cars.

  3. #13
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    Some might because lots of social conservatives would start looking at other issues, like inequality, as greater problems were their concerns about abortion and gay rights rendered less smelly to them. But I'm not suggesting they'd vote Dem as that they wouldn't vote at all or at least they would not provide the organizing muscle they now do.

    My argument is predicated on something "mainstream" Republicans discovered in 2016, which is that their members aren't nearly as conservative as they thought. Trumpists don't care about free trade and aren't really motivated by the same things as the Chamber of Commerce. Those people provide the money but not the votes or ground-level organization. They don't want their SS or medicare cut. They don't really care that much about tax rates (beyond the much more general idea that high taxes are bad). And they have come to take over the party at this point because the party cannot win without them.

    A key element of GOP politics for the whole of my adult lifetime has been about the boiling resentments of liberal social policies. The whole point of that game is NOT to resolve the issues. So long as they can appear to oppose abortion and gay rights and civil rights, etc, they don't have to actually solve those problems, and if they do, they stop having issues they can sell to the Trump portion of their base.

    If you make your living complaining about a problem, the worst thing you can do is actually solve the problem. It's like selling a product with a particular feature that attracts new buyers, only to see your competitor make that feature standard equipment on all cars.
    You are onto something here and it falls with something I have long said. GOP always plays great defense. When they are in the minority they are fabulous at coming up with all sorts of things that make their base sit up and listen. Look at right after Obamas election in 2008. Never heard so many rumors, memes and such going on. People were out raging. Even donned tri corner hats. It brought out massive turnout in 2010 and 2014. Then in 2016,where just the mere mention of Hillary Clinton, who they had been warning about bringing the apocalypse for 20 years, was enough to rally the base. I have often asserted that the winning strategy long term for democrats, is to focus all the energy on economics, healthcare and infrastructure. Forget all the social issues. They would win for decades because even many republicans agree with dems on those points. Its guns, religion and immigration where they lose people since the GOP is so great at ginning up fear.
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  4. #14
    Ignorance Is Virtue BitterPill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    With the new SCOTUS pick well on his way to confirmation and liberals needing to be peeled off the ceiling, I wonder if a solid-5 majority on the Court will be--electorally--the worst thing that ever happened to Republicans.

    Once a new SCOTUS does away with Roe and everybody who claims a religious exemption can discriminate in any way they like and guns are confirmed as a sacred right--once the goals of white social conservatives are satisfied....

    ....why should they vote Republican anymore?

    The GOP gets it's money from corporations and the wealthy, but its foot soldiers are white churchgoers. If they're no longer motivated, how can the GOP win?
    Gerrymandering, voter-suppression, racial-hate and lots of support from Putin. That is the GOP's way forward.
    Last edited by BitterPill; 12th July 2018 at 07:25 AM.

  5. #15
    Flibbertigibbet Wonderer's Avatar
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    They may well be. But I usually picture them like this:

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  6. #16
    Master political analyst Dittohead not!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    Some might because lots of social conservatives would start looking at other issues, like inequality, as greater problems were their concerns about abortion and gay rights rendered less smelly to them. But I'm not suggesting they'd vote Dem as that they wouldn't vote at all or at least they would not provide the organizing muscle they now do.

    My argument is predicated on something "mainstream" Republicans discovered in 2016, which is that their members aren't nearly as conservative as they thought. Trumpists don't care about free trade and aren't really motivated by the same things as the Chamber of Commerce. Those people provide the money but not the votes or ground-level organization. They don't want their SS or medicare cut. They don't really care that much about tax rates (beyond the much more general idea that high taxes are bad). And they have come to take over the party at this point because the party cannot win without them.

    A key element of GOP politics for the whole of my adult lifetime has been about the boiling resentments of liberal social policies. The whole point of that game is NOT to resolve the issues. So long as they can appear to oppose abortion and gay rights and civil rights, etc, they don't have to actually solve those problems, and if they do, they stop having issues they can sell to the Trump portion of their base.

    If you make your living complaining about a problem, the worst thing you can do is actually solve the problem. It's like selling a product with a particular feature that attracts new buyers, only to see your competitor make that feature standard equipment on all cars.
    It's like finding a cure to a chronic illness. It's a good thing for everyone except the people who make the medications that kept the symptoms under control. Suddenly, they've lost their market.

    The evangelicals, if they get their way and end abortion and gay marriage, will have lost their market and therefore their political power.
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    You are onto something here and it falls with something I have long said. GOP always plays great defense. When they are in the minority they are fabulous at coming up with all sorts of things that make their base sit up and listen. Look at right after Obamas election in 2008. Never heard so many rumors, memes and such going on. People were out raging. Even donned tri corner hats. It brought out massive turnout in 2010 and 2014. Then in 2016,where just the mere mention of Hillary Clinton, who they had been warning about bringing the apocalypse for 20 years, was enough to rally the base. I have often asserted that the winning strategy long term for democrats, is to focus all the energy on economics, healthcare and infrastructure. Forget all the social issues. They would win for decades because even many republicans agree with dems on those points. Its guns, religion and immigration where they lose people since the GOP is so great at ginning up fear.
    Thing is, those social issues are just as important to Dem constituencies. We have to be for civil rights and women's rights. But the GOP may take those issues off the table regardless--which leaves the Dems all about solving problems that the GOP wants to claim either don't exist or shouldn't be solved--certainly not through public policy.

  8. #18
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    Thing is, those social issues are just as important to Dem constituencies. We have to be for civil rights and women's rights. But the GOP may take those issues off the table regardless--which leaves the Dems all about solving problems that the GOP wants to claim either don't exist or shouldn't be solved--certainly not through public policy.
    True but the difference is dem politicians arent going to get elected and overturn civil or womens rights. So dems could easily focus on economic issues and still win. I remember seeing a tv interview with a miner in Duluth who admitted he liked democrat policies better but voted republican instead because he felt they wouldnt restrict his gun rights or pick on his decision to send his kid to religious school. Those issues outweighed his disdain for republican policies I guess. Its one way to explain why some of the poorest areas in Appalachia vote GOP. Its all about the social issues. The GOP does a much better job of portraying democrats as violent, anti family, gun grabbing socialists.

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