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Thread: Why Iím taking down my cityís Confederate monuments

  1. #1
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Why Iím taking down my cityís Confederate monuments

    This is an opinion piece by Mitch Landrieu, the mayor of New Orleans.

    The record is clear: New Orleansís Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis and P.G.T. Beauregard statues were erected with the goal of rewriting history to glorify the Confederacy and perpetuate the idea of white supremacy. These monuments stand not as mournful markers of our legacy of slavery and segregation, but in reverence of it. They are an inaccurate recitation of our past, an affront to our present and a poor prescription for our future.

    The right course, then, is to excise these symbols of injustice. The Battle of Liberty Place monument was not built to commemorate the fallen law enforcement officers of the racially integrated New Orleans police and state militia. It was meant to honor members of the Crescent City White League, the people who killed them. That kind of ďhonorĒ has no place in an American city. So, last month, we took the monument down.


    This week, we began the removal of a statue honoring Davis, and soon thereafter Lee and Beauregard. It wonít erase history. But we can begin a new chapter of New Orleansís history by placing these monuments, and the legacy of oppression they represent, in museums and other spaces where they can be viewed in an appropriate educational setting as examples of our capacity to change.
    This is exactly the right thing to do. We certainly need to acknowledge what happened, but it is immoral to venerate the people who fought for the continued existence of and expansion of slavery in this country.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...=.e412f796eabd
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  2. #2
    Burn it down Macduff's Avatar
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    Godsie Adam Gibbs
    May 11 at 1:33pm ∑

    I'm going around spray painting Confederate General's names on pot holes in New Orleans so Mayor Landrieu can remove them. ����

  3. #3
    Junior Member Zephyr's Avatar
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    It's a dumb thing to do.
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    RNG
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    I'm torn. It does remind me a bit of the Taliban blowing up those huge Buddha statues carved into mountainsides in Afghanistan, a loss of art. But if in fact the statues are being moved to museums where they can be shown and an explanation of their history and significance is detailed, it's a bit less wrong.

    However, it still stinks a bit of censorship to me.

    I am really conflicted.
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  5. #5
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RNG View Post
    I'm torn. It does remind me a bit of the Taliban blowing up those huge Buddha statues carved into mountainsides in Afghanistan, a loss of art. But if in fact the statues are being moved to museums where they can be shown and an explanation of their history and significance is detailed, it's a bit less wrong.

    However, it still stinks a bit of censorship to me.

    I am really conflicted.
    Do you think Confederate leaders should be venerated for defending slavery?
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    RNG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    Do you think Confederate leaders should be venerated for defending slavery?
    Absolutely not. And I'm not convinced those who see those statues and think that would be any less apt to think that with the statues gone.

    I think a lot of people see those statues and are reminded of all the bad stuff, too. And even the statues themselves are a part of the history of the area.

    But there is no doubt that it is a reminder of a bad part of the history of the US.

    So it is still far from a black and white situation for me.

    It sort of reminds me of a bunch of museums I visited in Germany when I vacationed there many years ago. There were artifacts from the Roman days till about 1937, then a few from 1946 on but one would guess that Germany was in complete stasis in between those years. Did that make those years go away? Or was it a potential stimulus for a resurgence of that kind of thinking?

    Wiser men than me ...
    Last edited by RNG; 13th May 2017 at 11:14 AM.
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    The Un-Holy One The Man's Avatar
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    It reminds me of the tensions in the ex-Soviet world, over removal of the Communist monuments. To some Ukrainians or Estonians they represent oppression or occupation. To ethnic Russians (and plenty of Ukrainians too), they represent their heritage, the glory of their ancestors...

    In Estonia, in Tallinn, in 2007, the removal of the Red Army Bronze Soldier from the capital's downtown resulting in rioting and looting and destruction of Estonian businesses by ethnic Russian youths







    The Estonian government at the time accused the Russian government of encouraging and even outright organizing the riots, allegedly there were members of Putin youth groups from Russia directing and leading the rioters. Russian hackers also performed a masssive cyber attack which effectively temporarily shut down all internet in Estonia. And members of those aforementioned pro-Kremlin youth groups attacked the Estonian ambassador's car in Moscow and beat up one 9f her bodyguards, who had to use paper spray to fight them off...

    In the end, fearing more violent unrest in their capital, and in the face of nasty rhetoric from Moscow, the Estonian authorities caved, and changed their original plan (to break up and destroy the monument) and, instead, put it back up, at a Soviet military cemetery in the suburbs of Tallinn, with full honors, where it now stands and the Russians can pay respects to it at their convenience


    That's one example of how dangerous it is to mess with history... Then, you got Ukraine, where the nationalists destruction of Soviet monuments after the 2014 Maidan Revolution, was one of the driving factors for the subsequent secession of Crimea and the civil war tbat broke out in the Donbass and has now claimed at least 10,000 lives...

    History is best left the hell alone...
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    Junior Member Claudius the God's Avatar
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    I see no reason to venerate anyone in the Confederacy. They were traitors and human scum. As for removing history from the record, that is absurd. We all know the history, no one will forget the Civil War.
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    RNG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius the God View Post
    I see no reason to venerate anyone in the Confederacy. They were traitors and human scum. As for removing history from the record, that is absurd. We all know the history, no one will forget the Civil War.
    And yet many Americans revel in the 2nd as being the bastion that would allow them to rebel against an evil central government any time they want. Isn't that all the Confederacy was doing?

    Why were they so evil but so many (to my utter amazement) praise and cheer on the Bundy group and similar?
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    Veteran Member DebateDrone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RNG View Post
    Absolutely not. And I'm not convinced those who see those statues and think that would be any less apt to think that with the statues gone.

    I think a lot of people see those statues and are reminded of all the bad stuff, too. And even the statues themselves are a part of the history of the area.

    But there is no doubt that it is a reminder of a bad part of the history of the US.

    So it is still far from a black and white situation for me.

    It sort of reminds me of a bunch of museums I visited in Germany when I vacationed there many years ago. There were artifacts from the Roman days till about 1937, then a few from 1946 on but one would guess that Germany was in complete stasis in between those years. Did that make those years go away? Or was it a potential stimulus for a resurgence of that kind of thinking?

    Wiser men than me ...
    You visited a museum and saw historical artifacts. A statue of commemoration is not a historical artifact in the public square in a place of prominence.

    The statues, once removed as a symbol of commemoration, will become historical artifacts.


    These monuments were funded, erected, and maintained with tax payer monies. In the days when most people of color were kept out of the decision making process. Now, if the people have chosen to remove these commemorations from their place of honor, then that is the will of the people...as it was the will of the people to make give these commemorations a place of honor.

    The South/CSA had its run. It deserves no more commemoration.
    Last edited by DebateDrone; 13th May 2017 at 02:46 PM.
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