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Thread: BBC's Three Girls Comments

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    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    BBC's Three Girls Comments

    The BBC recently aired a 3 hour special documentary on a case of child sex trafficking in the English city of Rochdale. This documentary is available on YouTube, and well worth watching from a variety of POVs.



    The main takeaway of this documentary is that, despite being provided incontrovertible evidence of child sex abuse as early as 2005, the police failed to properly investigate and the Crown Prosecution Service failed to prosecute until several years later. The scandal might be of only passing interest to Americans except for the reasons it occurred: the victims were all poor white girls with troubled home lives and various issues, and the perpetrators were all British Pakistani men who owned businesses and were perceived as very successful in their communities.

    Since the Rochdale prosecution, in which 11 men were convicted, reforms to the way police and prosecutors regard these crimes has resulted in staggering numbers of convictions everywhere in the UK, with most -- but not all -- involving the same mix of victim and perpetrator ethnicities. Apparently, all the UK needed to do to improve the safety of its children's lives was to stop denying that they are in danger to begin with.

    I can see parallels to crimes in America that we seem unable to properly detect and prosecute where, IMO, denial is likewise the main barrier to justice -- at least in my view. Cops who kill, nevermind rape, assault, steal and elsewise abuse their communities under color of law. Female sex offenders. Clergy sex abusers. Etc.

    The Three Girls documentary makes it clear that one reason this denial persisted for so long was, it was the greatest fear of the police and prosecutors to be seen to be racist, by the Muslim community or by the public at large. Arresting a British Muslim man on the strength of evidence given by a young white girl who had been in care, had a family history of poverty and drug abuse, and who had already been classed as troubled by the school, etc. was scarier for them than touching the third rail. And like any other form of sex abuse, the fact that perpetrators realized that the police had no desire to pursue such crimes emboldened them until they became completely disinhibited and sadistic.

    I think this is a universal human flaw, rooted in our desire to see ourselves as good people. We all think racists are evil, horrible people whose thinking is as diabolical as Hitler's, and NONE of us ever wants to be tainted by this label. When we think racism has blighted the lives of certain members of our communities, we are protective and sympathetic and want to restore justice to their lives. It is the next step in this emotional reaction to be reluctant to entertain accusations against members of a group we think have been injured by racism (or another bigotry), and we are deluded into not realizing how criminals of that ethnic group or profession or what-have-you could view this blind spot of ours as a golden opportunity to commit crimes without detection and punishment.

    All of us have some groups that we trust to an irrational degree. I am very fond of garbage collectors, gardeners, cat owners, historical preservationists, etc. If you told me a person of these kinds had been accused of a theft, I would almost certainly dismiss that accusation as baseless. But as we can all agree, there is no scientific data that I could ever hope to find to bolster my belief that "people like that" don't steal, ever. There cannot be such data, as my belief is just plain dumb -- it's emotion conquering logic, and I think it's a human flaw we all have.

    In order to reduce any crime, the best solution is to investigate it and prosecute it. Likewise, in order to allow any sort of crime to increase, the most effective means is to fail to investigate it and prosecute it. Trying to achieve any sort of rational, just system of crime suppression cannot be done by applying every ridiculous emotional bias we possess and hope it overlaps reality from time to time.

    Every time we say "people like that just don't commit such crimes", we are virtually guaranteeing that such crimes will increase. When we say "people like that just can't be crime victims in this way", we are likewise guaranteeing that such crimes will increase. We cannot ever hope to be free of all our knee-jerk reactions to strangers, and probably wouldn't be better off if we were -- but we have to strive to do better in designing governments that effectively deliver justice for all.

    Your thoughts?
    Thanks from Ian Jeffrey, Monk-Eye and OlGuy

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    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Next time you are grocery shopping during the rush hours, pause and reflect. If there are 200 people in the building with you at that moment, you are likely close to more than a few murderers, child abusers, domestic violence perpetrators, rapists, etc. Doesn't matter if you are shopping at the Whole Foods in Silicon Valley. Notice how strongly you resist this idea. And if that doesn't make the point, repeat this exercise the next time you attend a crowded church service.

    We humans are not anywhere near as kind and decent as we like to think. In any large gathering, you are almost certainly within shouting distance of a good 5% or more who have committed a violent crime, usually undetected.

    5% of all cops. 5% of all clergy. 5% of all kindergarten teachers.

    Hard to believe, isn't it?

    Not being wiling to even consider the possibility is your fair share of the bias that allows many such crimes to occur without punishment. All of us have a duty to try and reduce that share, even at the risk of being viewed as racist by someone else.
    Last edited by Madeline; 19th May 2017 at 03:40 AM.

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    Veteran Member cpicturetaker12's Avatar
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    Madeline. You wanna watch a board, this or any, go mute? Put up any subject about WOMEN. RAPE, abuse, sexual, physical, monetarily, even trafficking of GIRLS--CHILDREN. MEN don't give a shit!! PERIOD.

    Of course let ONE women 'cry rape' against a hero, a jock, poor college students, a REPUBLICAN, and the board goes nuclear and negates every OTHER 'legimately raped' female who dares to report it.

    Misogyny in the 21st century in the electronic era. Report it, brag about it, commiserate about it or RIDICULE it's very existence.
    Last edited by cpicturetaker12; 19th May 2017 at 10:48 AM.
    Thanks from Friday13

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    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpicturetaker12 View Post
    Madeline. You wanna watch a board, this or any, go mute? Put up any subject about WOMEN. RAPE, abuse, sexual, physical, monetarily, even trafficking of GIRLS--CHILDREN. MEN don't give a shit!! PERIOD.

    Of course let ONE women 'cry rape' against a hero, a jock, poor college students, a REPUBLICAN, and the board goes nuclear and negates every OTHER 'legimately raped' female who dares to report it.

    Misogyny in the 21st century in the electronic era. Report it, brag about it, commiserate about it or RIDICULE it's very existence.
    The internet has disinhibited haters of every imaginable sort, and the really startling thing is how many haters there actually are and who they are. I'd guess now, at least half of all American teenagers have been involved in bullying intended to drive the victim to suicide.

    HALF.

    You have two kids? IMO, odds are, one has a wide and deep appetite for extreme sadism.

    No fucking way would I have believed this, growing up. I daresay no one else did then, either.

    See also, old people, nurses and other healers, cops, rich people and so on. Humans are just not all that evolved.

    I don't know why this was such a mystery before. Neighborhood rumor mongers carried out similar campaigns of utterly pointless attacks -- and 99.9% of neighbors cooperated -- before the internet existed.

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    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpicturetaker12 View Post
    Madeline. You wanna watch a board, this or any, go mute? Put up any subject about WOMEN. RAPE, abuse, sexual, physical, monetarily, even trafficking of GIRLS--CHILDREN. MEN don't give a shit!! PERIOD.

    Of course let ONE women 'cry rape' against a hero, a jock, poor college students, a REPUBLICAN, and the board goes nuclear and negates every OTHER 'legimately raped' female who dares to report it.

    Misogyny in the 21st century in the electronic era. Report it, brag about it, commiserate about it or RIDICULE it's very existence.
    You want someone to say something?

    Rape is bad.

    But men are not evil. Silence on a discussion board is not misogynistic.
    Thanks from Madeline, Friday13 and OlGuy

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    You want someone to say something?

    Rape is bad.

    But men are not evil. Silence on a discussion board is not misogynistic.
    Well, no.....but I do like it when one of my threads gets a post.

    A lot!

    Lol.

    BTW, the internet has also revealed the depth of hatred many females have towards men. Seriously disturbed type hatred, with attendant "leaks" into real life harm.
    Last edited by Madeline; 19th May 2017 at 12:44 PM.
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    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpicturetaker12 View Post
    Madeline. You wanna watch a board, this or any, go mute? Put up any subject about WOMEN. RAPE, abuse, sexual, physical, monetarily, even trafficking of GIRLS--CHILDREN. MEN don't give a shit!! PERIOD.

    Of course let ONE women 'cry rape' against a hero, a jock, poor college students, a REPUBLICAN, and the board goes nuclear and negates every OTHER 'legimately raped' female who dares to report it.

    Misogyny in the 21st century in the electronic era. Report it, brag about it, commiserate about it or RIDICULE it's very existence.
    Ivanka does, she just had a big meeting about it with people that can actually do something about it.

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Ivanka does, she just had a big meeting about it with people that can actually do something about it.
    Did you bash Michelle Obama for her "bring back our girls" tweet, after Boko Harrem kidnapped almost 100 school girls? I did.

    I loved Michelle, but useless posturing for public approval is still condemnation-worthy.

  9. #9
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Did you bash Michelle Obama for her "bring back our girls" tweet, after Boko Harrem kidnapped almost 100 school girls? I did.

    I loved Michelle, but useless posturing for public approval is still condemnation-worthy.
    Michelle tweeted, Ivanka is sitting down with congressmen.

    Quite a big difference there.

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Michelle tweeted, Ivanka is sitting down with congressmen.

    Quite a big difference there.
    Bullshit. Neither woman's activity is reasonably calculated to aid in solving the problem, and, both women had other choices that could have been effective.

    IOW, both women exploited vulnerable victims to enhance their public image, and both deserved to be criticized for it.

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