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Thread: lessons in cultural sensitivity.

  1. #81
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eve1 View Post
    I don’t consider myself a liberal or a conservative. Depending on the issue I can see the POV of both. I like being a moderate and taking the best of both worlds and finding solutions that are not under the extremes of any ideology. Extremism on either side is disastrous.

    And again I agree 100% with the post #77 by KnotaFrayed
    Sanders' positions are not "extreme". Moderation in the face of a disaster is not laudable.

    "Mission creep" has resulted in moving the Democratic Party from the left to the right, and this is not an accident. The "big names" in our national politics have almost all been co-opted by the 0.01%.

  2. #82
    Human Bean KnotaFrayed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    I did not agree with Bernie on the positive value of voting for Clinton, and still don't.



    I did listen. I simply disagree. I was/am his supporter because I support his ideas.

    I am not his groupie.
    Then you contradict yourself and you throw yourself to the lions using the excuse you didn't want to be thrown to the domestic house cats.

    Once again, how do you say Bernie represents your ideology, then claim he doesn't, when he claims Hillary Clinton represents his, with differences that did NOT deter him from saying his and HER similarities in ideology should NOT be sacrificed, by doing what he warned against. That being, splitting the ideology so that NO PART of it on ANY level would get support needed to WIN a position where it could implement ANYTHING and WORSE, have the complete OPPOSITE of the ideology, implemented with the stripping AWAY of any parts of the ideology that had ALREADY been implemented!!!

    Even if one truly believed Clinton would not forward their ideology to the fullest or would do so at the lowest level, to believe that rejecting that, in favor of a totally opposition ideology is like committing suicide with a gun because you fear people with guns.

    With regard to sounding like Church lady pissed that a new family sat in the front pew, Bernie Sanders was my FIRST choice and because he was my first choice, I had FAITH in his choice and his reasons FOR voting for HRC........In addition the result of the election put NO new progressive liberals in the front pew, instead, it sent them and ALL progressives to the back of the church because some seemed to think if they could not have all pieces of their ideology, an opposition and regressive ideology, was somehow going to be "better". That is NOT what I would call intelligent, but would call SELFISH and/or penny wise, but pound FOOLISH!

    NOTHING gets done, if you refuse to compromise enough to the point someone will put you in a position to actually IMPLEMENT your ideology. Free education for all does NOT get done, by LOSING elections. To assume EVERYONE should follow or live under YOUR version of being progressive, without compromise is no different than "Catholics" or any other Christians or Muslims claiming NO OTHER can be tolerated and EVERYONE MUST live according to one and ONLY one ideology and ONLY ONE interpretation of it.

    While there are not many things in America that people haggle a price for, buying a car is one place one is expected to NOT walk in, look at the sticker price, ask what they'll get for a trade in and simply write out a check. Most people work a deal, and working a deal, they are negotiating, compromising and coming to a point where they cooperate and the deal gets done. Call it moderating, but moderating is not all about giving the who ship away or up, it is about finding common ground so you can get some of what you want, at as cost of allowing others, who want NO LESS to get what they want, to have some of what they want. GRIDLOCK is all about NO ONE compromising and if one side claims they have a right to refuse to compromise, how can they refuse the other side, the same right?

    Things DO NOT get done when people cross their arms, stick their nose in the air and say NOPE I refuse to BUDGE on anything an everything. The way to GET things done is to PRIORITIZE what is most important to you and keep that as the thing you would give up last......and use lesser priorities to bargain a trade with. Yes, it is GOOD to have principles, but principles are MEANINGLESS, if one has NO power to enact them.

    In addition, who does NOT want to see 100% of their ideology, implemented. The only problem with that in a literal sense is that it does NOT represent a liberal ideology or a consider everyone in the picture, attitude or culture and it is somewhat fascist to suggest a single party, a single ideological system and culture where only ONE side of the coin is considered and required to be adhered to. It does not matter if that single ideology is "conservative" or "progressive". To bar all other ideologies is NOT liberal or progressive, it is selfish, fascist and no less extreme than its opposite.

    Consider politics and political ideologies as a pole......then consider extreme "liberalism" occupies one end of the pole and extreme "conservatism" occupies the other end of the pole. The middle of the pole represents where all levels of one or the other extreme, are divided from all levels of the other. That means that moderation does NOT eliminate one ideology or the other, it merely represents the area where there is less extreme distinction. While most people might go for a moderately hot or cool day, for obvious reasons, only a few are going to be attracted to totally frigid or totally scorching weather and totally scorching or totally frigid are NOT conducive to high rates of survival especially under prolonged exposure.

    The only "creep" there has been is in the hatch marks on the political pole. Democrats are where they have always been and Republicans the same. With moving the scale and the hatch marks that delineate the where the middle is, to the right or left, what were those in the middle, are now considered in new territory, even though nothing about them have changed. By moving the scale or hatch marks to the right, based on neo conservative attitudes and definitions of what being (neo) conservative means, former moderate Republicans now lie in Democratic territory and more, yet nor totally extreme "conservatives" now lie in what is now defined by the new scale, to be moderates....and the new "radically extreme" "conservatives" become more "normalized". From the left's perspective, if they do the same thing they can call some Democrats or some "liberals" 'not really Democrats/liberals' the same as some call moderate republicans/conservatives, rino's. If ideologies are not unified and split because of level or degree of "purity", then the danger and the consequence is the same as we just saw, a split vote where NO candidate gets enough votes to defeat the candidates of the opposing ideology.

    As Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton explained, no matter who of the two got elected, having preserved a position in government for ANY level of the same ideology allows that level of the ideology to work with other levels of the ideology. When the opposition ideology gets the position and power, they can not only render their opposition ideology powerless, but strip away any remnants of power they had, so preserving enough power to a progressive ideology at any level is not solely about progressing forward, it is about preventing a big slide, backwards.

    Believe it or not there are people who fit into the minute percent of the population that do MANY things positive for the rest of the population, but some people want to forward the idea that all wealth and all wealthy people are evil, even as they reap the benefits of those wealthy people who use their wealth to FIGHT in justices, help those in need and fight greed and corruption. While money can be said to be the root of all evil it does not cause all people with it, to become evil. Inflexible and political constructs from ANY side are destructive as they do not weigh and balance all sides of any issues and they focus on singular, not inclusive ideals.

    I truly believe that each and every human, every one of us has an equal capacity to do evil as we do, to do good, thus, that leads me to believe there are almost always (as there always seems to be exceptions too) two sides to every issue to be weighed and because of that it is difficult to characterize something as all good or all evil, unless they characterize themselves that way or their only raison d'etre or mission is death and destruction. In that case, there seems to be lack of thought regarding how advocates of death and destruction will not bring on their own deaths and destruction, by sticking to their mission.

    In short, does it make sense to relinquish all of one's power, because they cannot have 100% of the power? I don't think so. Not only does such an attitude fail to bring the power or progress one wants, it seems quite the spoiled child, attitude.
    Last edited by KnotaFrayed; 26th February 2018 at 08:30 PM.
    Thanks from Eve1 and Isalexi

  3. #83
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Your post above is wrong.

    Could we discuss the Op now?

  4. #84
    Veteran Member Isalexi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoaTlOver View Post
    Seriously...you?!? I am not trying to be mean or disrespectful here, but let's face it...you are probably one of the most closed minded, set in her ways people at this site.
    You see I can wear more than one hat. This is a forum where I can express my feelings. This is where I can express what I cannot say in my workshops. I have even been accused of being too conservative. There are some of us that can walk and chew gum at the same time

  5. #85
    Veteran Member Isalexi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the watchman View Post
    "me too", what? You don't do "prejudice awareness" class in military boot camps. The environment is completely different. Back then, they were deliberately trying to trigger a response. Boot camp prepares recruits for potential situations in a military confrontation. Not how to get along with your peers at the prom.
    I didn’t say I give a prejudice awareness class to military boot camp environment. ..but it would be interesting But something interesting happened a few month ago . I did a workshop with teachers near Quantico. Many of the teachers were ex Marines who thought teaching was going to be so easy and they confided in me that they were struggling.…They can’t make teenagers do 50 push-ups.
    Thanks from the watchman and Ian Jeffrey

  6. #86
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isalexi View Post
    I didn’t say I give a prejudice awareness class to military boot camp environment. ..but it would be interesting But something interesting happened a few month ago . I did a workshop with teachers near Quantico. Many of the teachers were ex Marines who thought teaching was going to be so easy and they confided in me that they were struggling.…They can’t make teenagers do 50 push-ups.
    IMO, nobody can teach fuck all in our worst public high schools.

    Nobody employed as a teacher, anyway.

    The conversion of the greatest free public education system in the world into a prison waiting room is yet another form of institutional racism, killing Americans and salting the earth where we grow our human capital.

    In another 20 years, at this rate, only the rich will be literate.
    Last edited by Madeline; 27th February 2018 at 02:07 PM.

  7. #87
    "Mr. Original". the watchman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isalexi View Post
    I didn’t say I give a prejudice awareness class to military boot camp environment. ..but it would be interesting But something interesting happened a few month ago . I did a workshop with teachers near Quantico. Many of the teachers were ex Marines who thought teaching was going to be so easy and they confided in me that they were struggling.…They can’t make teenagers do 50 push-ups.
    made me chuckle. That sounds just like something the Marines I know would say.

  8. #88
    Ignorance Is Virtue BitterPill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Uh....of course. I may have spoken badly. I was referring to Jews, Roma and others who belonged to groups the Nazis targeted for extinction.
    What about the British the Nazis killed, the Kiwis, the Aussies. What about the Americans?

    What about the Germans who died thanks to Hitler's nihilistic war?

    Nazis got a lot of people killed, and a large proportion were white any way you cut it.
    Last edited by BitterPill; 5th March 2018 at 09:32 AM.

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