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  1. #21
    ~Standing My Ground~ Sassy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    You get to hear a lot of black people complain about racism IRL?

    Outside political meetings, I certainly don't -- but I have complained about racist speech from other customers (white) when their whisper-shouting upset me.

    A few times, since moving to Cleveland.

    I will not shop, eat, buy, etc. somewhere that white customers feel free to use that language. I expect such customers to be asked to leave and so far, they have been.

    I don't say anything about white racists in the ER, because I figure they could be demented or drugged or disorientated, etc. But that's the limit of my tolerance.
    Every summer, all summer at our pool. For violating a pool rule, like improper swimwear. For not having amenities card. For having too many guests, glass bottles, etc.

    Every summer, all summer, enforcement for all things on black people at the pool result in charges of being racist whether it's a resident, the property manager, or security. And this year, the only security guards we have are black, and yet still they say this.

  2. #22
    ~Standing My Ground~ Sassy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the watchman View Post
    your story doesn't sound believable. Only an employer looking to be sued would allow that type of behavior on their property. The other tenants have a right to quiet enjoyment. That right is being violated by the people you're claiming are screaming at staff in a public area. The owners could be sued both by their employees and others at the pool. A guest can be asked to leave any time the property owner, or their agents, asks them too. If they refuse , they can be arrested.
    And if they are black, it will be a media story.

  3. #23
    ~Standing My Ground~ Sassy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the watchman View Post
    your story doesn't sound believable. Only an employer looking to be sued would allow that type of behavior on their property. The other tenants have a right to quiet enjoyment. That right is being violated by the people you're claiming are screaming at staff in a public area. The owners could be sued both by their employees and others at the pool. A guest can be asked to leave any time the property owner, or their agents, asks them too. If they refuse , they can be arrested.
    I don't understand your post at all. We don't allow that behavior. We do have the right to quiet enjoyment, which is why the PM and security guards go to the pool and eject people who don't live here, have too many guests, etc. I don't care if you believe me or not. All summer, every summer, anyone who enforces rules are called racist for doing so.

    'You are only asking for my card because I am black'. 'You are only saying I can't have these guests because I am black'. I've had black neighbor friends tell me directly to my face that management is racist. One of them had a Chow dog (against the rules) and let it go around off leash (another rule broken) and he was a very nice guy. My best dog walking buddy at the time. He said he was hassled because they are racist, I was like no it's because Chows are a banned breed, not black people!

    I was so glad last night when my black neighbor friend was complaining about the number of guests allowed at amenities. He didn't say anything was racist. He just said why so few? Which is a good question for him. Two bedrooms get two parking spaces, and it seems to us that a married couple with a child should be able to have a few guests too, not counting one of them as part of the number of people per card. It's something I am going to talk to the board about. I always thought people in two bedrooms get two cards, which would mean 8 people total.

    We are not tenants, we are owners.

  4. #24
    New Member rwb72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassy View Post
    On the other end, some black people cry racism anytime they don't want to follow a rule. Our PM and the security guys never selectively enforce. It doesn't matter what color you are if you are wearing socks in the pool or have too many guests or don't have your card, you are leaving the pool, by police if necessary.

    I was summarily kicked out and followed home my first trip to the pool here for lacking my 'amenities card' or at least an ID with this address listed. The following me home was to make sure I lived here, because if I did not, I was in for a trespassing charge.

    Every summer, all summer, the PM and the security staff are screamed at that they are racist when enforcement is applied to black owners, tenants, or 'guests' (people that do not live here, but want to use our pool). Not all of them, of course, but enough to make every summer at the pool miserable for them.
    RACIST is the big weapon now. A club wielded by those who have little to really say. Ask them if they support AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.

  5. #25
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassy View Post
    Every summer, all summer at our pool. For violating a pool rule, like improper swimwear. For not having amenities card. For having too many guests, glass bottles, etc.

    Every summer, all summer, enforcement for all things on black people at the pool result in charges of being racist whether it's a resident, the property manager, or security. And this year, the only security guards we have are black, and yet still they say this.
    We cannot know the operation of another person's mind. We can only infer it from their behavior.

    And black Americans have A LOT of reason to suspect, when ejected from pools, that that motive is racism.
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  6. #26
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassy View Post
    And if they are black, it will be a media story.
    You can't know what black swimmers at your pool are thinking. You can only infer it from their behavior.

    Do the kids occasionally push boundaries and test limits, thinking the pool staff will be reluctant to discipline? Especially the teenagers?

    Who can say?

    How rowdy are the white patrons? Especially the kids?

    It's doubtless not easy making everyone feel welcome and comfortable, because swimming pools are inherently fraught with racist fears.

  7. #27
    ~Standing My Ground~ Sassy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    We cannot know the operation of another person's mind. We can only infer it from their behavior.

    And black Americans have A LOT of reason to suspect, when ejected from pools, that that motive is racism.
    OK, so what should we do? Not enforce rules on black people to avoid being called racist? That seems to be the game. Just like on here when people pull the race card to shut someone up.

    It's completely unfounded here. They cannot look around and see white people in violation. They see the exact opposite if they are paying attention, so I don't agree with you - they are making it up.

    Every summer all summer for 13 years now, these people do not consistently feel racism is in play for simply asking rules to be followed. If they do, that is ludicrous.

    They don't all do it. I am so glad I have never heard my black neighbor friend ever say anything is due to race. I wonder if that is in part because he's an immigrant. He wasn't raised in this culture of seeing racism everywhere. He speaks exactly as any owner. 'I don't like some of these rules, I think they are unfair' and he means for everyone. I totally agree on the one he brought up and because I am involved in board activity, I am going to get that clarified for him so that he can have whatever number of guests he should be able to have.

    There might be a miscommunication somewhere with our new PM. My understanding is that his wife and daughter do not count towards the total. I will find out.

  8. #28
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassy View Post
    OK, so what should we do? Not enforce rules on black people to avoid being called racist? That seems to be the game. Just like on here when people pull the race card to shut someone up.
    Disincentivize bad behavior. Make changes to pool operation that do this. Close the pool to children during certain hours, add lifeguards, etc. Pool management is not my shtick, but it's certainly possible to find out what best practices are and change to them.

    It's completely unfounded here. They cannot look around and see white people in violation. They see the exact opposite if they are paying attention, so I don't agree with you - they are making it up.
    Again, nobody can know that. I assume rowdy behavior is the most important violation, next to members only. So if the black swimmers get stepped on for bringing food to the pool deck and white swimmers were seen by them jumping into the shallow end, then those swimmers could infer racism is afoot. While it might just be the random nature of events.

    Every summer all summer for 13 years now, these people do not consistently feel racism is in play for simply asking rules to be followed. If they do, that is ludicrous.
    I think the kids are less likely to have a history of past summers swimming there.

    They don't all do it. I am so glad I have never heard my black neighbor friend ever say anything is due to race. I wonder if that is in part because he's an immigrant. He wasn't raised in this culture of seeing racism everywhere. He speaks exactly as any owner. 'I don't like some of these rules, I think they are unfair' and he means for everyone. I totally agree on the one he brought up and because I am involved in board activity, I am going to get that clarified for him so that he can have whatever number of guests he should be able to have.
    Cool beans.

    There might be a miscommunication somewhere with our new PM. My understanding is that his wife and daughter do not count towards the total. I will find out.
    Aren't the wife and child also residents?

    *Puzzled look*

    Can't make everyone happy all the time, @Sassy. Have you guys hired some black lifeguards?

  9. #29
    "Mr. Original". the watchman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassy View Post
    And if they are black, it will be a media story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sassy View Post
    I don't understand your post at all. We don't allow that behavior. We do have the right to quiet enjoyment, which is why the PM and security guards go to the pool and eject people who don't live here, have too many guests, etc. I don't care if you believe me or not. All summer, every summer, anyone who enforces rules are called racist for doing so.

    'You are only asking for my card because I am black'. 'You are only saying I can't have these guests because I am black'. I've had black neighbor friends tell me directly to my face that management is racist. One of them had a Chow dog (against the rules) and let it go around off leash (another rule broken) and he was a very nice guy. My best dog walking buddy at the time. He said he was hassled because they are racist, I was like no it's because Chows are a banned breed, not black people!

    I was so glad last night when my black neighbor friend was complaining about the number of guests allowed at amenities. He didn't say anything was racist. He just said why so few? Which is a good question for him. Two bedrooms get two parking spaces, and it seems to us that a married couple with a child should be able to have a few guests too, not counting one of them as part of the number of people per card. It's something I am going to talk to the board about. I always thought people in two bedrooms get two cards, which would mean 8 people total.

    We are not tenants, we are owners.
    it might be easier to believe your story if you got all the facts straight. Which is it. Are the police not called on black people at the pool being disruptive because it would be on the news, or are they?
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  10. #30
    "Mr. Original". the watchman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwb72 View Post
    RACIST is the big weapon now. A club wielded by those who have little to really say. Ask them if they support AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.
    care to explain how this argument, in of itself, isn't using "racist" as a weapon? And what the hell does supporting Affirmative Action have to do with anything?
    Thanks from Friday13 and Madeline

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