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Thread: Ancient Humans Avoided Incest

  1. #11
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    I think there is some kind of “genetic memory” or “hard wiring” in our brains. Evolved over time, but at a deep level.
    Like the physical revulsion we experience when we see rotten food, or feces. We don’t need to be told that eating that is bad. Our bodies tell us, and even fire up the physical process of purging it if we even think about eating it.

    The way we bare our teeth when we fight with guns and rockets. As if we need to reduce our biting time by 0.05 seconds just in case.
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  2. #12
    Veteran Member Micro Machines Champion, Race Against Time Champion Tedminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Jews are not "known for having certain diseases"; most are completely healthy. But Jews do have an unusually high degree of genetic relatedness, not created by incest. There are genetic diseases that are rarely seen in people who have no Jewish ancestry.

    There have always been more than enough Jews to allow them to avoid incest AND assimilation at the same time.

    According to current estimates, as many as one in three Ashkenazi Jews, those with Eastern European descent, are carriers for certain genetic diseases, including Gaucher disease. Researchers think Ashkenazi genetic diseases arise because of the common ancestry many Jews share.
    The 5 Most Common Ashkenazi Genetic Diseases
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  3. #13
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tedminator View Post
    Not according to the bible.

    Hmm come to think of it, inbreeding is probably why Jews of Eastern European origin are known for having certain diseases.
    That's not the only example... From Wikipedia:

    There are many single gene genetic disorders that differ in frequency between different populations due to the region, though many assume it to be solely based on race. Examples include:

    • Cystic fibrosis, the most common life-limiting autosomal recessive disease among people of Northern European heritage
    • Sickle-cell anemia, most prevalent in populations with sub-Saharan African ancestry but also common among Latin-American, Middle Eastern populations, as well as those people of South European regions such as Turkey, Greece, and Italy
    • Thalassemia, most prevalent in populations having Mediterranean ancestry, to the point that the disease's name is derived from Greek thalasson, "sea"
    • Tay–Sachs disease, an autosomal recessive disorder more frequent among Ashkenazi Jews than among other Jewish groups and non-Jewish populations
    • Hereditary hemochromatosis, most common among persons having Northern European ancestry, in particular those people of Celtic descent
    • Lactose intolerance affects (over their lifetime) as many as 25% of Europeans but up to 50-80% of Hispanics, along with Ashkenazi Jews, but nearly 100% of Native Americans.
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  4. #14
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    That's not the only example... From Wikipedia:
    None of those diseases prove the ancestors of today's sufferers practiced incest. Small, homogeneous population groups are no more likely to engage in incest than anyone else.

    In fact, I don't think any society or group has ever practiced incest, anywhere on the planet. It has universally been viewed as deviant behavior.

  5. #15
    Veteran Member Micro Machines Champion, Race Against Time Champion Tedminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    That's not the only example... From Wikipedia:
    yeah thats what tends to happen with inbreeding. Same thing with purebred dogs.. which is why mutts tend to healthier
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  6. #16
    Southern Strategy Liberal OldGaffer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    None of those diseases prove the ancestors of today's sufferers practiced incest. Small, homogeneous population groups are no more likely to engage in incest than anyone else.

    In fact, I don't think any society or group has ever practiced incest, anywhere on the planet. It has universally been viewed as deviant behavior.
    Royal families from Ancient Egyptian days through the 19th century European Royals suffered from the genetic disorders from generational incest.

    "In 2008, a team began DNA research on Tutankhamun and the mummified remains of other members of his family. The results indicated that his father was Akhenaten, and that his mother was not one of Akhenaten's known wives but one of his father's five sisters. The techniques used in the study, however, have been called into question.[25][26] The team reported it was over 99.99 percent certain that Amenhotep III was the father of the individual in KV55, who was in turn the father of Tutankhamun.[27] The young king's mother was found through the DNA testing of a mummy designated as 'The Younger Lady' (KV35YL), which was found lying beside Queen Tiye in the alcove of KV35. Her DNA proved that, like his father, she was a child of Amenhotep III and Tiye; thus, Tutankhamun's parents were brother and sister.[28] Queen Tiye held much political influence at court and acted as an adviser to her son after the death of her husband. Some geneticists dispute these findings, however, and "complain that the team used inappropriate analysis techniques."[29]
    While the data are still incomplete, the study suggests that one of the mummified fetuses found in Tutankhamun's tomb is the daughter of Tutankhamun himself, and the other fetus is probably his child as well. So far, only partial data for the two female mummies from KV21 has been obtained.[30] One of them, KV21A, may well be the infants' mother, and, thus, Tutankhamun's wife, Ankhesenamun. It is known from history that she was the daughter of Akhenaten and Nefertiti, and thus likely to be her husband's half-sister. One consequence of inbreeding can be children whose genetic defects do not allow them to be brought to term."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutankhamun

    "By the time of Charles's birth there had been many generations of inbreeding within the Spanish royal house; his physical and mental disabilities are widely attributed to this inbreeding. The practice of first-cousin and uncle-niece marriages was common among 17th-century European nobility, intended to preserve prosperous families' properties. The Habsburgs were an extreme case of this; they had won their extensive holdings mostly through marriages and were determined to keep others from turning the tables on them. Charles's own immediate pedigree was almost exclusively populated with close relative relationships: Charles's mother, Mariana of Austria, herself a Habsburg, was a niece of his father, Philip. Mariana was a daughter of Empress Maria Anna of Spain (1606–46) and Emperor Ferdinand III. Thus Maria Anna was simultaneously his aunt and grandmother while Margaret of Austria, Maria Anna's mother, was both his grandmother and great-grandmother. The inbreeding was so widespread in his case that all of his eight great-grandparents were descendants of Joanna and Philip I of Castile. This inbreeding had given so many hereditary weaknesses in the family that a Habsburg generation was more prone to stillbirths than were peasants in Spanish villages.[6]"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_II_of_Spain
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  7. #17
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    None of those diseases prove the ancestors of today's sufferers practiced incest. Small, homogeneous population groups are no more likely to engage in incest than anyone else.

    In fact, I don't think any society or group has ever practiced incest, anywhere on the planet. It has universally been viewed as deviant behavior.
    Statistically, there was more incest among early humans for the simple reason that there were fewer humans available. From the link I provided in post #7:

    Animals, even insects, can commonly recognize and avoid mating with their close kin. This is not an absolute law; inbreeding does happen — for example, when animals are offered no alternatives. But there are mechanisms that make it relatively unlikely in normal circumstances.
    "Animals," of course, includes humans. And in a tribe of one or two dozen individuals, incestuous relationships would be relatively common.
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  8. #18
    Moderator HCProf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    None of those diseases prove the ancestors of today's sufferers practiced incest. Small, homogeneous population groups are no more likely to engage in incest than anyone else.

    In fact, I don't think any society or group has ever practiced incest, anywhere on the planet. It has universally been viewed as deviant behavior.
    Incest still happens...look at societies that believe in arranged marriages..often to their 1st cousins and sometimes uncles. The Amish is one such society, along with several in the Middle East, India and parts of Africa.

    Saudi Arabia Awakes to the Perils of Inbreeding - The New York Times
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  9. #19
    New Member Havelock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    [...]In fact, I don't think any society or group has ever practiced incest, anywhere on the planet. It has universally been viewed as deviant behavior.
    Well, this is demonstrably untrue with respect to particular royal households. Just saying...

    Cheers.
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  10. #20
    New Member Havelock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    [...]It strongly suggests that some of our modern morality is a result of behavior that is genetic in origin, which is itself a revolutionary idea as to humans.

    Your thoughts?
    Is this really all that revolutionary an idea with respect to human morality/ethics? I'm not so sure that's true. In fact, I think it's fairly well accepted these days that our basic human moral/ethical impulses are common to all cultures and originate in our evolutionary hard wiring.

    Cheers.
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