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Thread: Extinction is not a dirty word

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueneck View Post
    Do you even know what that picture is?
    Itís a picture of Wilf Batty, who may be the man that shot the last Thylacinus cynocephalus.

    https://retrieverman.net/2011/02/24/...ild-thylacine/

    He is irrelevant to this discussion, which is not about the conscious killing off of an entire species of large mammals, but about hurting humans for stupid reasons by halting the development of important facilities like dams, to protect forgettable minor species, some of which are on their way through the very crowded extinction terminal of Evolution Airport, and many of which are not. It is easy to take such species and relocate them, but greenies were never interested in the species anyway. They simply wanted to stop construction of dams because the whole aim of the Fifth Column was to destroy capitalist nations from within.


    To wit:

    From the L.A. Times, Sept. 22, 1999:

    After spending $250 million on designing, planning and building the Seven Oaks Dam, engineers are ready to close the gates and start operations at the massive structure. But a few small things are in the way: rats and wild plants.

    The 550-foot-high dam near Redlands was built by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers as the crown jewel in the Santa Ana River flood-control project. It was designed to protect downriver residents against the 100-year flood and was supposed to be operating by now.

    But last March, as the dam neared completion, the corps was slapped with a lawsuit filed by environmental groups seeking to protect the endangered San Bernardino kangaroo rat, whose habitat lies directly in front of the dam. The suit also seeks to protect two endangered plants, the Santa Ana River woolly star and the slender-horned spineflower.

    The dam is expected to reduce, or eliminate the need for, flood insurance for tens of thousands of homeowners in Orange, San Bernardino and Riverside counties. But now it looks as if homeowners will have to pay insurers $200 to $800 a year each for a while longer.

    Hole in the Dam : If Not for 3 Endangered Species, Seven Oaks Would Be Set to Operate - latimes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Larrikin View Post
    You didn't say what more there was to the picture.
    I blew what you were saying about the Dickey-Lincoln dam out of the water -- what you had inferred was far removed from the actual facts -- the dam lost support because the projected costs skyrocketed from 219 million to $900 million. Blame it on liberals or whatever all you want, you failed to make a case for what you are saying; that's on you, not me.
    Last edited by Puzzling Evidence; 6th November 2017 at 01:24 AM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Larrikin View Post
    It’s a picture of Wilf Batty, who may be the man that shot the last Thylacinus cynocephalus.

    https://retrieverman.net/2011/02/24/...ild-thylacine/

    He is irrelevant to this discussion, which is not about the conscious killing off of an entire species of large mammals, but about hurting humans for stupid reasons by halting the development of important facilities like dams, to protect forgettable minor species, some of which are on their way through the very crowded extinction terminal of Evolution Airport, and many of which are not. It is easy to take such species and relocate them, but greenies were never interested in the species anyway. They simply wanted to stop construction of dams because the whole aim of the Fifth Column was to destroy capitalist nations from within.


    To wit:

    From the L.A. Times, Sept. 22, 1999:

    After spending $250 million on designing, planning and building the Seven Oaks Dam, engineers are ready to close the gates and start operations at the massive structure. But a few small things are in the way: rats and wild plants.

    The 550-foot-high dam near Redlands was built by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers as the crown jewel in the Santa Ana River flood-control project. It was designed to protect downriver residents against the 100-year flood and was supposed to be operating by now.

    But last March, as the dam neared completion, the corps was slapped with a lawsuit filed by environmental groups seeking to protect the endangered San Bernardino kangaroo rat, whose habitat lies directly in front of the dam. The suit also seeks to protect two endangered plants, the Santa Ana River woolly star and the slender-horned spineflower.

    The dam is expected to reduce, or eliminate the need for, flood insurance for tens of thousands of homeowners in Orange, San Bernardino and Riverside counties. But now it looks as if homeowners will have to pay insurers $200 to $800 a year each for a while longer.

    Hole in the Dam : If Not for 3 Endangered Species, Seven Oaks Would Be Set to Operate - latimes
    YOU get to decide what's important. Like the bleeding hearts who only care about whales and other mammals that are large and impressive, if you don't "like it" it doesn't matter. I guess by this measure, bees can go to hell as well as all sharks -- they hurt people so fuck 'em.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puzzling Evidence View Post
    I blew what you were saying about the Dickey-Lincoln dam out of the water -- what you had inferred was far removed from the actual facts -- the dam lost support because the projected costs skyrocketed from 219 million to $900 million. Blame it on liberals or whatever all you want, you failed to make a case for what you are saying; that's on you, not me.
    The link you provided was a very poor summary. Here is what it said:

    Congress authorized the project known as Dickey-Lincoln in 1965 at a cost of $219 million. But through the years, its cost escalated, eventually reaching more than $900 million by the early 1980s. That covered two power dams and transmission lines from them.

    With elected officials' support fraying and environmentalists and sporting enthusiasts battling the project, it was scaled back to a $175 million venture.

    Finally, in 1984, then-Sen. George Mitchell said he could no longer "in good conscience" support even that project. It was shelved.

    They wrote the article bass ackwards. You need to start with how the dam was stopped by greenies who wanted to protect the Furbish lousewort, and then go to the years of delays, and then to the fact that by the time they were ready the costs had increased so much it was finally shelved completely.

    From Wikipedia:

    “…the Dickey-Lincoln dam, a $227 million hydroelectric project proposed on the upper Saint John River in 1974,[2] was deauthorized by Congress in 1986 after years of study, because the dam would have flooded 88,000 acres (360 km2) of Maine forest and severely reduced the lousewort's habitat.[3][4] Some criticized ending the dam project to protect the lousewort; Time magazine called the idea "downright silly" in 1977.[5] While thought extinct at the time the dam was proposed, it was rediscovered in 1976 by C.D. Richards while doing surveys to determine the environmental impact of the dam.[6] Since it was once thought to be extinct, it is considered a Lazarus taxon.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedicularis_furbishiae

    From Time Magazine – April 4, 1977:

    The Nation: Dammed Lousewort

    When Congress passed the Endangered Species Act in 1973, it never dreamed that an obscure northern Maine wild flower might some day block the construction of a $668 million hydroelectric project. But it reckoned without the mighty Furbish lousewort, a plant thought extinct until some 30 specimens were discovered last year in an area destined for flooding by the proposed Dickey-Lincoln dam project. The lousewort is expected to become one of the first plants included in the Interior Department's endangered-species list, and if environmental concerns prevail, Dickey-Lincoln may have to be redesigned or...

    The Nation: Dammed Lousewort - TIME

    From The Washington Post – April 4, 1977

    The Lousewort and the Law

    THE FURBISH LOUSEWORT may be a lovely plant, if you like scraggly snapdragons. And the snail darter may be more delightful than the average three-inch fish. But something is awary when a clump of louseworts along the Upper St. John River can louse up planning for the Dickey-Lincoln Dam - or when a federal court, to save the snail darter, stops the nearly-complete Tellico Dam down on the Little Tennessee River.

    Misty-eyed environmentalists are delighted to see such obsure bits of nature hold sway over huge public works. They are also coming to regard the endangered species act as a weapon of last resort against projects that they oppose on broader grounds. The more pragmatic dam-fighters recognize, however, that many more snail-darter-type showdowns or more lousewort jokes can endangers the law itself. Already some members of Congress are grumbling that when they approved the act, they had in mind good casues such as saving bald eagles and keeping commercial foragers from ripping off great act in the West. They didn't mean to give automatic priority to a whole assortment of undistinguished flora and fauna with precarious existences and funny names.

    More at: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...=.d1ed06f33547

    Basically the greenies stopped the construction of the dam and caused years of court cases and delays, and eventually, many years later the dam project was scrapped because by now costs had gone up so much, it was no longer viable. In short, the Greenies won.
    Last edited by Rob Larrikin; 6th November 2017 at 04:22 AM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Larrikin View Post
    The link you provided was a very poor summary. Here is what it said:

    Congress authorized the project known as Dickey-Lincoln in 1965 at a cost of $219 million. But through the years, its cost escalated, eventually reaching more than $900 million by the early 1980s. That covered two power dams and transmission lines from them.

    With elected officials' support fraying and environmentalists and sporting enthusiasts battling the project, it was scaled back to a $175 million venture.

    Finally, in 1984, then-Sen. George Mitchell said he could no longer "in good conscience" support even that project. It was shelved.

    They wrote the article bass ackwards. You need to start with how the dam was stopped by greenies who wanted to protect the Furbish lousewort, and then go to the years of delays, and then to the fact that by the time they were ready the costs had increased so much it was finally shelved completely.

    From Wikipedia:

    “…the Dickey-Lincoln dam, a $227 million hydroelectric project proposed on the upper Saint John River in 1974,[2] was deauthorized by Congress in 1986 after years of study, because the dam would have flooded 88,000 acres (360 km2) of Maine forest and severely reduced the lousewort's habitat.[3][4] Some criticized ending the dam project to protect the lousewort; Time magazine called the idea "downright silly" in 1977.[5] While thought extinct at the time the dam was proposed, it was rediscovered in 1976 by C.D. Richards while doing surveys to determine the environmental impact of the dam.[6] Since it was once thought to be extinct, it is considered a Lazarus taxon.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedicularis_furbishiae

    From Time Magazine – April 4, 1977:

    The Nation: Dammed Lousewort

    When Congress passed the Endangered Species Act in 1973, it never dreamed that an obscure northern Maine wild flower might some day block the construction of a $668 million hydroelectric project. But it reckoned without the mighty Furbish lousewort, a plant thought extinct until some 30 specimens were discovered last year in an area destined for flooding by the proposed Dickey-Lincoln dam project. The lousewort is expected to become one of the first plants included in the Interior Department's endangered-species list, and if environmental concerns prevail, Dickey-Lincoln may have to be redesigned or...

    The Nation: Dammed Lousewort - TIME

    From The Washington Post – April 4, 1977

    The Lousewort and the Law

    THE FURBISH LOUSEWORT may be a lovely plant, if you like scraggly snapdragons. And the snail darter may be more delightful than the average three-inch fish. But something is awary when a clump of louseworts along the Upper St. John River can louse up planning for the Dickey-Lincoln Dam - or when a federal court, to save the snail darter, stops the nearly-complete Tellico Dam down on the Little Tennessee River.

    Misty-eyed environmentalists are delighted to see such obsure bits of nature hold sway over huge public works. They are also coming to regard the endangered species act as a weapon of last resort against projects that they oppose on broader grounds. The more pragmatic dam-fighters recognize, however, that many more snail-darter-type showdowns or more lousewort jokes can endangers the law itself. Already some members of Congress are grumbling that when they approved the act, they had in mind good casues such as saving bald eagles and keeping commercial foragers from ripping off great act in the West. They didn't mean to give automatic priority to a whole assortment of undistinguished flora and fauna with precarious existences and funny names.

    More at: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...=.d1ed06f33547

    Basically the greenies stopped the construction of the dam and caused years of court cases and delays, and eventually, many years later the dam project was scrapped because by now costs had gone up so much, it was no longer viable. In short, the Greenies won.
    You used that dam as an example of how a stupid herb shut down the building of a dam, when that just simply was not the case. Spin it however you like, you were wrong, the thing was supposed to cost 219 million and a few years latter, it had shot up to almost a billion dollars and was deemed not worth the investment for the area It was being built. Construction was not "shut down" by greenies, even though they oposed the dam, that issue did not figure into the final decision.

    The article you then used to defend your original post had nothing to do with Dickey-Lincoln dam, but a dam in Tennessee that was actually built in spite of ecological concerns. Your point is completely left-field.
    Last edited by Puzzling Evidence; 6th November 2017 at 04:36 AM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puzzling Evidence View Post
    YOU get to decide what's important.
    Passing on my genes is important, and raising my kids properly.

    Like the bleeding hearts who only care about whales and other mammals that are large and impressive, if you don't "like it" it doesn't matter. I guess by this measure, bees can go to hell as well as all sharks -- they hurt people so fuck 'em.
    Bees are essential to our crops and economy. Furbish Lousewort doesnít even have a job. Heís just a welfare slob. Sharks are a major and important species for a variety of reasons, whose design hasnít changed for millions of years because it was perfect. The snail darter wonít make a dime's worth of difference if itís here or not. If it disappeared tomorrow I canít see you losing any sleep over it. Try and concentrate on the OP before leaping to so many conclusions.

    Without extinction none of us would exist. It is essential to the evolution and continuation of life.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puzzling Evidence View Post
    You used that dam as an example of how a stupid herb shut down the building of a dam,
    It did. I just provided you more sources that prove that. You obviously didn’t read them. Others will – my trolls love to prove me wrong. They will scour those articles and see I’m right, and you are wrong.

    the thing was supposed to cost 219 million and a few years latter,
    It was more than a few years – it was 12 years. Read the articles for once.

    Construction was not "shut down" by greenies
    Yes it was. Read the quotes provided.

    The greenies halted the dam and caused delays and court cases to drag on. Why the hell do you think costs went up to the point where they couldn’t afford it? Hmm? Because of the delays caused by the Greenies. Derp!

    The article you then used to defend your original post had nothing to do with Dickey-Lincoln dam, but a dam in Tennessee that was actually built in spite of ecological concerns. Your point is completely left-field.
    You need to provide quotes to show what the hell you're referring to. What article is wrong, and where is your proof?
    Last edited by Rob Larrikin; 6th November 2017 at 04:46 AM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Larrikin View Post
    You need to provide quotes to show what the hell you're referring to. What article is wrong, and where is your proof?
    I don't have to "prove" anything. You are the one making the claim, the onus is on YOU to prove what you are saying.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Larrikin View Post
    Passing on my genes is important, and raising my kids properly.



    Bees are essential to our crops and economy. Furbish Lousewort doesn’t even have a job. He’s just a welfare slob. Sharks are a major and important species for a variety of reasons, whose design hasn’t changed for millions of years because it was perfect. The snail darter won’t make a dime's worth of difference if it’s here or not. If it disappeared tomorrow I can’t see you losing any sleep over it. Try and concentrate on the OP before leaping to so many conclusions.

    Without extinction none of us would exist. It is essential to the evolution and continuation of life.
    Spin....spin...spin....you didn't even know it was a fish -- you said it was a snail.....spin....

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puzzling Evidence View Post
    I don't have to "prove" anything. You are the one making the claim, the onus is on YOU to prove what you are saying.
    I think it's time you were shown the inside of my ignore bin.

    Happy prayers.

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