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Thread: Was Civilization Just a Big Mistake?

  1. #41
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    Or you're creating straw men for your own convenience.
    That would be convenient... I'd say it's less than a third of people that grasp the concept of supply and demand, and will make proposals to multiply the demand on the service while completely oblivious to the cost implications, even when it is spelled out.

    Just to say that it might be an answer, except that I've seen it demonstrated as an accurate observation dozens of times.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    That would be convenient... I'd say it's less than a third of people that grasp the concept of supply and demand, and will make proposals to multiply the demand on the service while completely oblivious to the cost implications, even when it is spelled out.

    Just to say that it might be an answer, except that I've seen it demonstrated as an accurate observation dozens of times.
    I think the idea of supply and demand is pretty well understood. But it really doesn't apply very well in this circumstance. Wages are depressed not just among the lowest skilled workers but all the way through the middle class. The classic illegal immigrant job--field work--finds that jobs go unfilled at any wage that farm companies are willing to pay once illegal immigrants are eliminated from the market (see Alabama).

    The arguments you make about supply and demand simply don't add up. And Capitalism 101 tells us that artificial barriers create built in inefficiencies that 1) raise the cost of goods and tend to wreck markets, and 2) are overcome by illegal activity like smuggling, which he considered inevitable. The whole thing about walls is funny considering the metaphor Smith chooses--goods bounce over walls like "India rubber."

  3. #43
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    I think the idea of supply and demand is pretty well understood. But it really doesn't apply very well in this circumstance. Wages are depressed not just among the lowest skilled workers but all the way through the middle class. The classic illegal immigrant job--field work--finds that jobs go unfilled at any wage that farm companies are willing to pay once illegal immigrants are eliminated from the market (see Alabama).

    The arguments you make about supply and demand simply don't add up. And Capitalism 101 tells us that artificial barriers create built in inefficiencies that 1) raise the cost of goods and tend to wreck markets, and 2) are overcome by illegal activity like smuggling, which he considered inevitable. The whole thing about walls is funny considering the metaphor Smith chooses--goods bounce over walls like "India rubber."
    See what I mean... I was trying to explain how even simple concepts get grossly misunderstood and misapplied by a wide majority on this forum, so, when you get into more complex systems, you can just axe the people who did not understand simpler concept off the top.

    So, as I said, people are not arguing to make themselves poor in the name of helping eliminate poverty, but more because they don't understand the causes and effects of their proposals. Just like those who pushed and believed the con of Obamacare, simple grasp of adding a massive surge of demand on a relatively static supply (doctors and hospital beds) MEANS the price must increase (which was the intent to strain the system to the point of failure).

    Just to say, it's not building a strawman, it's basis is purely in observation, and you've helped demonstrate the accuracy of the observation, that people generally can't plan their moves more than the next move ahead, and it's less than 30% that can plan to the second move... To say, it's not that people making those kinds of arguments WANT to make themselves poor, just they lack the ability to see the impacts of what they are proposing and how that will impact them into the future.

  4. #44
    SPOCK! Puzzling Evidence's Avatar
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    Yes.

    Civilization creates an unnatural social order.

    Whenever citizens began to feel the pangs of oppression, they created a new and highly flawed government instead of redefining civilization.
    Last edited by Puzzling Evidence; 26th November 2017 at 01:18 PM.

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