Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 31
Thanks Tree15Thanks

Thread: Investment in solar $161B in 2017

  1. #11
    New Member ATLglock's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2016
    Posts
    813
    Thanks
    889

    From
    Florida
    It's fucking amazing, when the previous administration was pushing for solar, the hard right bitched about how he was trying to put coal and fossil fuels out of business, oh and how "it's about the debt to our grandchildren"....now in Trump's era...."it's great!" "Why didn't we try this sooner!"

    Partisan hacks will hack.
    Thanks from BigBob

  2. #12
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    28,150
    Thanks
    7163

    From
    midwest
    Quote Originally Posted by ATLglock View Post
    It's fucking amazing, when the previous administration was pushing for solar, the hard right bitched about how he was trying to put coal and fossil fuels out of business, oh and how "it's about the debt to our grandchildren"....now in Trump's era...."it's great!" "Why didn't we try this sooner!"

    Partisan hacks will hack.
    Best to let market forces be the guide.

    Supply and demand is more powerful, and usually a better system, than having a gubmint try to force changes...

    When it makes economic sense, it will happen.

    Allowing it to happen is better than forcing it to happen.

  3. #13
    Bad Policy Good Politics DebateDrone's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    37,836
    Thanks
    32942

    From
    Border Fence
    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    People learned some lessons from the German cautionary tale of solar.

    It's still got a ways to go to be truly viable.
    What does that mean...'truly viable'?

    If I gave you a ton of coal ore or 40 solar panels, which would be the more viable option?
    Thanks from BigBob

  4. #14
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    22,209
    Thanks
    3447

    From
    C-A-N-A-D-A-Eh
    Quote Originally Posted by DebateDrone View Post
    What does that mean...'truly viable'?

    If I gave you a ton of coal ore or 40 solar panels, which would be the more viable option?
    Simple: does the cost of the equipment generate enough energy to recoup the cost? With coal plant, it's like 5-10 years to become profitable... with solar it's around 25-30 years (maybe less if you count subsidies)... the equipment begins to fail around 20 years. Meaning, it's a losing proposition.

    If you are using panels for your home, then that difference in costs is not relevant, but when you want to power a high tech society, it's not going to work.

    Look at Germany 400B invested, potential 300B return (a lot of positive assumptions), every 20 years they lose at least 100B.

  5. #15
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    36,346
    Thanks
    32011

    From
    Colorado
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller47 View Post
    Best to let market forces be the guide.

    Supply and demand is more powerful, and usually a better system, than having a gubmint try to force changes...

    When it makes economic sense, it will happen.

    Allowing it to happen is better than forcing it to happen.
    It is market forces that are killing the coal industry. Just as market forces killed the typewriter industry.

    If you want to 'revive' the coal industry, it will ONLY be through extraordinarily heavy-handed top-down command-and-control Soviet-style centralized planning methods.

    Why the FUCK would we wanna do THAT?
    Thanks from labrea, BigBob and Panzareta

  6. #16
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2012
    Posts
    61,896
    Thanks
    11270

    From
    By the wall
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Well, Mr. Trump is trying to discourage the solar power industry here in the United States. He thinks coal is the way to go. So he is putting tariffs on solar panels, slashing funding for the National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL), and doing anything else he can to slow down the transition to solar energy.

    Oh, and he wants to bring back the typewriter industry, too, and get rid of all these silly, new-fangled computer thingies.
    The good news is that he will force women to wear pantyhose again.

    As to the OP, solar is a great backup but we can't get all of our energy from it, we still need coal.

  7. #17
    Veteran Member Puzzling Evidence's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    22,586
    Thanks
    9992

    From
    In before the DERP!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller47 View Post
    I want to do that.

    Just waiting for it to make economic sense.

    Getting better every year...
    At this point, it's the instillation. I don't want them on my roof, as I do not want to yank panels every 20 yrs. When I do get them, I will install them myself.

  8. #18
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    36,015
    Thanks
    28632

    From
    On a hill
    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    Simple: does the cost of the equipment generate enough energy to recoup the cost? With coal plant, it's like 5-10 years to become profitable... with solar it's around 25-30 years (maybe less if you count subsidies)... the equipment begins to fail around 20 years. Meaning, it's a losing proposition.

    If you are using panels for your home, then that difference in costs is not relevant, but when you want to power a high tech society, it's not going to work.

    Look at Germany 400B invested, potential 300B return (a lot of positive assumptions), every 20 years they lose at least 100B.
    Maybe the costs of building a coal fired plant is recouped in 5-10 years, but you are still buying coal.
    Thanks from BigBob

  9. #19
    Veteran Member Puzzling Evidence's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    22,586
    Thanks
    9992

    From
    In before the DERP!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller47 View Post
    Best to let market forces be the guide.

    Supply and demand is more powerful, and usually a better system, than having a gubmint try to force changes...

    When it makes economic sense, it will happen.

    Allowing it to happen is better than forcing it to happen.
    It won't happen unless you decide for yourself the upside is worth the investment. Some people will never accept it as a good idea. We call these people "good soldiers."


    Purchasing panels is just one way to save from solar. Homeowners have three main options, a couple of which don’t require any upfront payment. And with very few exceptions, all of them can save you at least some money.

    The traditional route, which offers the most savings, is to purchase the system outright. You’ll own the panels and all the electricity they produce for their entire life span of 20 to 30 years or more. It costs between $18,000 and $25,000 to buy and install a 5.13-kilowatt system (the average in Massachusetts) before incentives, according to EnergySage. But after all tax credits and rebates are factored in, the average out-of-pocket cost is just under $14,000. Many homeowners who purchase their panels use a home equity or solar loan to finance it, reducing the upfront cost to zero.

    “If you want to save the most money, we would recommend that you buy the system,’’ Aggarwal said. “But if you want a simple solution — you don’t want to take out a loan, and you don’t want to pay cash — then leasing is a good option. It’s simple, it’s easy.’’
    Are solar panels worth it? - Home Improvement, Style - Boston.com Real Estate

    Pays for itself in 4 or 5 years in Massachusetts.
    Thanks from labrea

  10. #20
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    22,209
    Thanks
    3447

    From
    C-A-N-A-D-A-Eh
    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    Maybe the costs of building a coal fired plant is recouped in 5-10 years, but you are still buying coal.
    Yes, but after the 5 years the investment is repaid. So, where your 10$ bag of coal could generate 15-20$ of electricity (numbers are samples only)

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 14th December 2017, 08:43 AM
  2. Trump was a bad investment for everyone but him
    By Eve1 in forum Current Events
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 21st October 2017, 10:53 PM
  3. Total Solar Eclipse 2017
    By syrenn in forum Science and Technology
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 22nd August 2017, 04:44 PM
  4. Looking for a safe investment.
    By Spookycolt in forum Economics
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 21st May 2012, 06:57 PM
  5. Major Solar Flare Erupts from the Sun, Solar Wave headed towards Earth.....
    By Midwest Media Critic in forum Science and Technology
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 26th March 2011, 10:30 AM

Tags for this Thread


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed