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Thread: Investment in solar $161B in 2017

  1. #21
    New Member BigBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    The good news is that he will force women to wear pantyhose again.

    As to the OP, solar is a great backup but we can't get all of our energy from it, we still need coal.
    So uninformed!!! My solar is 24 hours a day with the storage of my batteries to draw from at night, also lowest power usage period.

  2. #22
    New Member BigBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebateDrone View Post
    What does that mean...'truly viable'?

    If I gave you a ton of coal ore or 40 solar panels, which would be the more viable option?
    The panels of course! Way simpler to use and there is no pollution.
    Thanks from labrea

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    Yes, but after the 5 years the investment is repaid. So, where your 10$ bag of coal could generate 15-20$ of electricity (numbers are samples only)
    Without real numbers, its difficult to have a discussion comparing direct costs.

    BOSTON, Feb 16 (Reuters) - The United States’ reliance on coal to generate almost half of its electricity, costs the economy about $345 billion a year in hidden expenses not borne by miners or utilities, including health problems in mining communities and pollution around power plants, a study found.

    Those costs would effectively triple the price of electricity produced by coal-fired plants, which are prevalent in part due to the their low cost of operation, the study led by a Harvard University researcher found.

    “This is not borne by the coal industry, this is borne by us, in our taxes,” said Paul Epstein, a Harvard Medical School instructor and the associate director of its Center for Health and the Global Environment, the study’s lead author.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-...28366220110216
    Are there any comparable costs associated with solar?

  4. #24
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    Without real numbers, its difficult to have a discussion comparing direct costs.



    Are there any comparable costs associated with solar?
    You are right; would need the real numbers to do a thorough analysis.

    Also, you are right, coal and oil are dirty and with many hidden costs. I'm not opposed to solar, just bad investments.

    Don't forget, can't have solar without oil.

    In terms of cost per kilowatt, solar has a ways to go.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puzzling Evidence View Post
    It won't happen unless you decide for yourself the upside is worth the investment. Some people will never accept it as a good idea. We call these people "good soldiers."




    Are solar panels worth it? - Home Improvement, Style - Boston.com Real Estate

    Pays for itself in 4 or 5 years in Massachusetts.
    Takes more than twice that time to pay for themselves out here in fly-over country.

    It varies due to tax credits from the gubmint which change from year to year.

    If I had an all electric home payback would be much sooner.

    Most people out here us natural gas for heat and hot water.

  6. #26
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller47 View Post
    Takes more than twice that time to pay for themselves out here in fly-over country.

    It varies due to tax credits from the gubmint which change from year to year.

    If I had an all electric home payback would be much sooner.

    Most people out here us natural gas for heat and hot water.
    Also, they are talking about if you have a setup panel-battery-inverter-home...

    Now, that's just prepaying for some years of electric, stuff does fail, but because you are not paying for grid connection, you can save some money over time.

    In the southern states, generally, yes, about 5 years, but those are geographical exceptions.

    There's nothing wrong with people wanting to set that up for themselves.

    Now, grid scale. That's what I'm talking about for viability.

    But there's the issues that you cannot escape; solar power is not generated (to any worthwhile sense) when it's dark, clouds do impact performance too, as well as heat.

    It generates little, increasing to the day and then falling. The typical electrical grid has what it considers "base consumption", you can add as many solar panels as you want, you won't get that base consumption met 24 hours a day, available at the flick of a switch (software switch now). You will have a huge amount available at peak times, but if you don't have enough available when you need it, problems happen.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    Also, they are talking about if you have a setup panel-battery-inverter-home...

    Now, that's just prepaying for some years of electric, stuff does fail, but because you are not paying for grid connection, you can save some money over time.

    In the southern states, generally, yes, about 5 years, but those are geographical exceptions.

    There's nothing wrong with people wanting to set that up for themselves.

    Now, grid scale. That's what I'm talking about for viability.

    But there's the issues that you cannot escape; solar power is not generated (to any worthwhile sense) when it's dark, clouds do impact performance too, as well as heat.

    It generates little, increasing to the day and then falling. The typical electrical grid has what it considers "base consumption", you can add as many solar panels as you want, you won't get that base consumption met 24 hours a day, available at the flick of a switch (software switch now). You will have a huge amount available at peak times, but if you don't have enough available when you need it, problems happen.
    Well, the quote I got on my house was for a basic system, no batteries.

    A system with batteries would be a much more complicated and costly setup, but would provide more benefits, to be sure.

    It was going to be 10-12 years to recover my cost.

    Plus, when I needed to replace the shingles on my roof, that would cost extra for taking the panels down then reinstalling them.

    If you are planning to sell the home in the next few years, will solar panels increase the value enough to get yer money back?

    And the tax credits which change from time to time.

    Do ya live in sunny Arizona or a cloudier region?

    There's a lot of factors, but when it makes economic sense for me to do it, I'll get it on my house.

    Lots of people feel the same way...

  8. #28
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller47 View Post
    Well, the quote I got on my house was for a basic system, no batteries.

    A system with batteries would be a much more complicated and costly setup, but would provide more benefits, to be sure.

    It was going to be 10-12 years to recover my cost.

    Plus, when I needed to replace the shingles on my roof, that would cost extra for taking the panels down then reinstalling them.

    If you are planning to sell the home in the next few years, will solar panels increase the value enough to get yer money back?

    And the tax credits which change from time to time.

    Do ya live in sunny Arizona or a cloudier region?

    There's a lot of factors, but when it makes economic sense for me to do it, I'll get it on my house.

    Lots of people feel the same way...
    The battery and inverter would make a drastic difference. Unless you are just reselling to the grid.

    That's the other problem; at your home, you will be getting the most power generated while you are not home.

    Not sure how your hydro company sets it up, but many places I've seen they will charge say 10c/kWh, but will by back your surpluses at 4-5c...

    Believe me; I want this tech to improve to where it's a viable replacement to oil and coal, but 3 years ago my calculations were that (except for the areas like southern US) the panels needed to roughly double efficiency at the same or lower costs to be truly viable for large scale production.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    You COULD make the argument that both Germany and the UK spent most of the PAST decade over-investing in solar, before it was really cost-competitive, in which case it would make sense for them to slow down the pace a little bit. I predict you'll find that argument silly, but stop and think about it a bit more.....
    Maybe someday it will be cost competitive, but we ain't there yet.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puzzling Evidence View Post
    It won't happen unless you decide for yourself the upside is worth the investment. Some people will never accept it as a good idea. We call these people "good soldiers."




    Are solar panels worth it? - Home Improvement, Style - Boston.com Real Estate

    Pays for itself in 4 or 5 years in Massachusetts.
    No your neighbors pay for it, it never pays for itself.

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