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Thread: The Co-Evolution Of Planets And Civilizations

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    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    The Co-Evolution Of Planets And Civilizations

    This is an article from Science Daily that is just too TOO interesting NOT to share:

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0604172652.htm

    It is basically raising the highly interesting question of whether alien civilizations can survive the stage that human civilization now finds itself in, where we are causing massive climate change on our own planet.

    Read FIRST, and then discuss.
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    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    The Co-Evolution Of Planets And Civilizations

    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    This is an article from Science Daily that is just too TOO interesting NOT to share:

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0604172652.htm

    It is basically raising the highly interesting question of whether alien civilizations can survive the stage that human civilization now finds itself in, where we are causing massive climate change on our own planet.

    Read FIRST, and then discuss.
    That's speculation, not science.

    Now, it is true, that the likelihood is that once you can unlock the energy to get off planet, you also have the energy to destroy the planet (more or less).

    Ultimately, it's allocation of resources. There could be rockets making a pass around the moon, drop 20-30 tons of material per load. Could launch once a month for 6 months, then a month of supplies to survive, 1 month crew rotations. Within 5-10 years could start launching ships from the moon to wherever.

    That's also presuming that the moon cannot itself be mined.

    With present technology could have what is it 9 month crew rotations on a Mars colony?
    Last edited by bmanmcfly; 5th June 2018 at 08:54 PM.

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    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    That's speculation, not science.

    Now, it is true, that the likelihood is that once you can unlock the energy to get off planet, you also have the energy to destroy the planet (more or less).

    Ultimately, it's allocation of resources. There could be rockets making a pass around the moon, drop 20-30 tons of material per load. Could launch once a month for 6 months, then a month of supplies to survive, 1 month crew rotations. Within 5-10 years could start launching ships from the moon to wherever.

    That's also presuming that the moon cannot itself be mined.

    With present technology could have what is it 9 month crew rotations on a Mars colony?
    I think the 'presumption' they're making is that every planet with a technological civilization is going to have fossil fuel resources that will be developed and exploited at some fairly early stage in the development of that civilization----BEFORE it becomes an interplanetary civilization. And the question that they are then addressing is whether that civilization can then survive long enough to become a sustainable interplanetary civilization or whether they will experience a collapse back into barbarism before they succeed at doing that. And, frankly, I think that is the question facing us, as well.

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    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    I think the 'presumption' they're making is that every planet with a technological civilization is going to have fossil fuel resources that will be developed and exploited at some fairly early stage in the development of that civilization----BEFORE it becomes an interplanetary civilization. And the question that they are then addressing is whether that civilization can then survive long enough to become a sustainable interplanetary civilization or whether they will experience a collapse back into barbarism before they succeed at doing that. And, frankly, I think that is the question facing us, as well.
    Well, consider what tesla was trying to build to provide wireless electricity generated through the harmonics of the planet. Sustainability of energy is something of an irrelevance.

    If THAT discovery came first, the entire mentality about energy would be different from the focus on only the mechanics.

    Consider the potential of building things in such a way that they are powered by the resonance of the planet itself. It

    The way I see It, intelligent beings on other planets could be :
    - organic beings with technologies
    - consciousness enhanced technology
    - technologically enhanced biology
    - genetically enhanced beings
    - other?

    The way each would develop would present it's own set of challenges.

    It seems we, for whatever the reason have spent the better part of recorded history trying to conquer the planet.

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    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    Well, consider what tesla was trying to build to provide wireless electricity generated through the harmonics of the planet. Sustainability of energy is something of an irrelevance.

    If THAT discovery came first, the entire mentality about energy would be different from the focus on only the mechanics.

    Consider the potential of building things in such a way that they are powered by the resonance of the planet itself. It

    The way I see It, intelligent beings on other planets could be :
    - organic beings with technologies
    - consciousness enhanced technology
    - technologically enhanced biology
    - genetically enhanced beings
    - other?

    The way each would develop would present it's own set of challenges.

    It seems we, for whatever the reason have spent the better part of recorded history trying to conquer the planet.
    I've gotta say, you latch on to the strangest ideas! Energy from the harmonic resonances of the planet?!?? And YOU were the one saying the article in the OP is 'speculation, not science'?!?


    The article is simply saying that almost every technological civilization is going to go through a phase where they are utilizing the energy stored in fossil fuels from earlier geological eras in their planet's history, that doing so will lead to significant climate changes, and that many civilizations might struggle to survive this phase, and advance to a phase where they are using more sustainable energy sources. That seems entirely reasonable to me, in truth.


    Our 19th century philosophy that progress is equivalent to 'the conquest of nature' is downright dangerous, and is closely linked to creationist views of the origin of Earth and humanity, and the notion that the human race was granted 'dominion' over the Earth and all the organisms that live upon it. Inasmuch as we are in the midst of the Sixth Extinction, the sixth major mass extinction in the history of life on this planet, it is necessary for the health of Spaceship Earth to junk that philosophy forthwith. We must do a much better job of living in HARMONY with nature.
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    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    I've gotta say, you latch on to the strangest ideas! Energy from the harmonic resonances of the planet?!?? And YOU were the one saying the article in the OP is 'speculation, not science'?!?
    How do you think tesla was going to generate his wireless electricity?


    The article is simply saying that almost every technological civilization is going to go through a phase where they are utilizing the energy stored in fossil fuels from earlier geological eras in their planet's history, that doing so will lead to significant climate changes, and that many civilizations might struggle to survive this phase, and advance to a phase where they are using more sustainable energy sources. That seems entirely reasonable to me, in truth.
    Except that it's a grain of truth used to build a mountain of lies.

    Yes, climate shifts. That would present a climate challenge.

    However, unless it was an attempt to control the entire planetary environment, that could fail.

    We could pollute the planet to be uninhabitable, but the premise is still an extension of Malthus failed theory.

    Our 19th century philosophy that progress is equivalent to 'the conquest of nature' is downright dangerous, and is closely linked to creationist views of the origin of Earth and humanity, and the notion that the human race was granted 'dominion' over the Earth and all the organisms that live upon it. Inasmuch as we are in the midst of the Sixth Extinction, the sixth major mass extinction in the history of life on this planet, it is necessary for the health of Spaceship Earth to junk that philosophy forthwith. We must do a much better job of living in HARMONY with nature.
    More Malthusian fear mongering.

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    Veteran Member Moorhuhn Wanted Champion Hollywood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    That's speculation, not science.

    Now, it is true, that the likelihood is that once you can unlock the energy to get off planet, you also have the energy to destroy the planet (more or less).

    Ultimately, it's allocation of resources. There could be rockets making a pass around the moon, drop 20-30 tons of material per load. Could launch once a month for 6 months, then a month of supplies to survive, 1 month crew rotations. Within 5-10 years could start launching ships from the moon to wherever.

    That's also presuming that the moon cannot itself be mined.

    With present technology could have what is it 9 month crew rotations on a Mars colony?
    Here's an idea. Why don't we stop fucking up the planet we are already living on?
    It's a perfectly nice planet.
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    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    How do you think tesla was going to generate his wireless electricity?
    With the harmonic resonances of the planet, presumably? I mean, I guess that IS what you are claiming, right? Have you shared this thought with the guys at NASA? Do they know anything about it?


    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    Except that it's a grain of truth used to build a mountain of lies.

    Yes, climate shifts. That would present a climate challenge.

    However, unless it was an attempt to control the entire planetary environment, that could fail.

    We could pollute the planet to be uninhabitable, but the premise is still an extension of Malthus failed theory.

    More Malthusian fear mongering.
    It so happens that I know a lot about Malthus. Malthus was wrong about some things, and he was right about other things. It's complicated, actually. I could give you a long lecture about Malthus, and explain what things he was wrong about, and what things he was right about, but you're kind of boring me tonight, and I think I want to just go and listen to some good music. So, sayonara for now.
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    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    With the harmonic resonances of the planet, presumably? I mean, I guess that IS what you are claiming, right? Have you shared this thought with the guys at NASA? Do they know anything about it?




    It so happens that I know a lot about Malthus. Malthus was wrong about some things, and he was right about other things. It's complicated, actually. I could give you a long lecture about Malthus, and explain what things he was wrong about, and what things he was right about, but you're kind of boring me tonight, and I think I want to just go and listen to some good music. So, sayonara for now.
    Not me... Tesla.

    I don't doubt that nasa would be exploiting that for themselves if the idea was viable. It was the prospect that caused the shut down of the project, not the failure of the project.

    As to Malthus, I'm less interested in the intricacies than I am that the people that most push and fund global warming, who believe in Malthusian catastrophe like a religion.

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