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Thread: Do liberals want to make the world safe for child molesters?

  1. #11
    New Member Havelock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassy View Post
    My rationale is that it's sick and the DSM should not have stopped calling it sick.
    Yes, that's exactly what some folks say about revisions to the DSM relative to homosexuality. With exactly the same justification...

    Cheers.

  2. #12
    ~Standing My Ground~ Sassy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havelock View Post
    Yes, that's exactly what some folks say about revisions to the DSM relative to homosexuality. With exactly the same justification...

    Cheers.
    Homosexuality is no comparison because it involves consenting adults. I can't believe you even said that.

  3. #13
    ~Standing My Ground~ Sassy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havelock View Post
    That's simply not true.

    Cheers.
    Source? I'll wait.
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  4. #14
    New Member Havelock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassy View Post
    Source? I'll wait.
    Given that you're so keen on folks using Google search to counter willful ignorance, I'll let you use exactly that to research the history of the DSM.

    Cheers.

  5. #15
    ~Standing My Ground~ Sassy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havelock View Post
    Given that you're so keen on folks using Google search to counter willful ignorance, I'll let you use exactly that to research the history of the DSM.

    Cheers.
    Yeah I already knew it wasn't decades ago, I was asking you to source your false assertion. 2013 wasn't decades ago. I do source my claims. Me commenting in other threads regarding people using google is that they are not. Like yourself.

    Not All Pedophiles Have Mental Disorder, American Psychiatric Association Says In New DSM | HuffPost
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  6. #16
    New Member Havelock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassy View Post
    Yeah I already knew it wasn't decades ago, I was asking you to source your false assertion. 2013 wasn't decades ago. I do source my claims. Me commenting in other threads regarding people using google is that they are not. Like yourself.

    Not All Pedophiles Have Mental Disorder, American Psychiatric Association Says In New DSM | HuffPost
    The diagnostic criteria for pedophilic disorder, by any other name, haven't changed materially since 1994. If you want to suggest that the DSM 5 represented some significant change in those criteria, then by all means do so. By all means...

    Here's a quote from the article that you just cited: "It’s important to note that the actual diagnostic criteria for pedophilia have not changed since the last version of the DSM, but what was once known as pedophilia is now called “pedophilia disorder,” the APA pointed out in an emailed statement to The Huffington Post."

    Aside from the error in terminology, this citation would appear to support my position, not yours.

    Cheers.
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  7. #17
    ~Standing My Ground~ Sassy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havelock View Post
    The diagnostic criteria for pedophilic disorder, by any other name, haven't changed materially since 1994. If you want to suggest that the DSM 5 represented some significant change in those criteria, then by all means do so. By all means...

    Here's a quote from the article that you just cited: "It’s important to note that the actual diagnostic criteria for pedophilia have not changed since the last version of the DSM, but what was once known as pedophilia is now called “pedophilia disorder,” the APA pointed out in an emailed statement to The Huffington Post."

    Aside from the error in terminology, this citation would appear to support my position, not yours.

    Cheers.
    OMG it is a huge change to remove pedophilia as a disorder! It's still there as a paraphilia, but not a disorder.
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  8. #18
    ~Standing My Ground~ Sassy's Avatar
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    In a move toward destigmatizing pedophilia, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) in its updated Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), distinguishes between pedophiles who desire sex with children, and those who act on those desires.

    The former group — those who want to have sex with children but whose desires are not distressing or harmful to themselves or others — is no longer classified as having a psychiatric condition in the updated DSM.

    “The difference [from the last edition of the DSM] is, you’re not automatically saying that as soon as someone has a marked, unusual erotic interest that they have a mental disorder,” said Ray Blanchard, who cowrote the chapter on sexual disorders in the new DSM.



    Not All Pedophiles Have Mental Disorder, American Psychiatric Association Says In New DSM | HuffPost
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  9. #19
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havelock View Post
    There was a suggestion in a recent thread that the American Psychiatric Association (APA), in cahoots with “liberals” in general, were somehow conspiring to make the world safer for child molesters by revising the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) to change the criteria for diagnosing pedophilia. This insinuation is misleading at best.

    In truth of course there has been ongoing discussion in the psychiatric profession regarding what used to be called “sexual perversions.” That’s been going on for decades and in that time we have seen attitudes and terminology change. For one thing, they’re now called paraphilic disorders and not perversions or deviations. Overall, the tendency has been to focus diagnostic criteria on harm to self and others rather than on how uncommon any particular constellation of sexual interests may or may not be. This is precisely the thinking that led the APA to remove homosexuality as a diagnosable disorder from the DSM way back in the ‘70s, not so by the way.

    The result is that now, today, in order to be diagnosed with a paraphilic disorder one has to exhibit more than atypical sexual interests. A person may be diagnosed with a paraphilic disorder if he or she exhibits sexual desires or behaviors that involve someone’s psychological distress, injury, or death, or a desire for sexual behaviors involving unwilling persons or persons unable to give legal consent. Assuming that none of those criteria apply, then a person may be diagnosed with a paraphilic disorder if he or she feels personal mental distress about his or her atypical sexual interests and this distress stems from causes other than mere social disapproval.

    Apart from some relatively minor changes in terminology, this basic set of diagnostic criteria haven’t changed in a couple of decades now. So where’s the problem? Where’s the big conspiracy? It’s true that there was some discussion around the latest revision to the DSM about eliminating or significantly revising the entire diagnosis of paraphilia or paraphilic disorder. The rationale was that the diagnosis as it is currently employed amounts to “medicalizing” criminal behavior and is an unfortunate holdover from the past. That’s a debatable issue – I’d tend to agree with that critique myself – but in the end the changes that were adopted were quite minor.

    As for pedophilic disorder in particular, following are the specific diagnostic criteria:
    A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger);
    B. The person has acted on these urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty;
    C. The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A.

    Again, these criteria have remained basically unchanged for many years. And again, what’s the problem? At no point during these discussions regarding paraphilias has there ever been any suggestion that laws regarding adult/minor sexual contact need to be relaxed. On the contrary…

    Bottom line: unless one believes in punishing potential crime or mere nonconformity, then there’s no benefit in branding someone who is mentally stable, functional, and hasn’t harmed anyone else as mentally ill. But if you do believe in punishing potential crime, then how far should we take that? ‘Cause if we want to take that principle to its logical conclusion then I can think of several folks who post to this forum who might be candidates for preventive detention – or at least for ongoing registration and supervision.

    Cheers.
    Not too sure changes to the DSM are made by "liberals". That's a strange description of the American Psychiatric Association.

    Among the public generally, attitudes have changed dramatically. The scope of the problem, who offends, who gets victimized, etc.

    Most recently, the growing awareness that female pedophiles also exist, and are not rare.

    So, I think the public badly desires solutions, and is willing to entertain ideas now that would have been shouted down 10 years ago, such as allowing pedophiles to buy child sex robots.

    No way of knowing, of course, whether that would help. Robots cannot be tortured or degraded or murdered.

  10. #20
    ~Standing My Ground~ Sassy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Not too sure changes to the DSM are made by "liberals". That's a strange description of the American Psychiatric Association.

    Among the public generally, attitudes have changed dramatically. The scope of the problem, who offends, who gets victimized, etc.

    Most recently, the growing awareness that female pedophiles also exist, and are not rare.

    So, I think the public badly desires solutions, and is willing to entertain ideas now that would have been shouted down 10 years ago, such as allowing pedophiles to buy child sex robots.

    No way of knowing, of course, whether that would help. Robots cannot be tortured or degraded or murdered.
    You think it's conservative groups who lobbied them to make the change?
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