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Thread: Do liberals want to make the world safe for child molesters?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassy View Post
    Because you said this is one criteria which is not true: a desire for sexual behaviors involving unwilling persons or persons unable to give legal consent.

    They can desire that but if they don't feel distressed about it, it doesn't count.
    Disorders do not have to be ego-dystonic, which means they don't have to bother the person affected. Some disorders are ego-syntonic, meaning they don't bother the person affected but they tend to cause dysfunction or harm.
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  2. #42
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Disorders do not have to be ego-dystonic, which means they don't have to bother the person affected. Some disorders are ego-syntonic, meaning they don't bother the person affected but they tend to cause dysfunction or harm.
    You are wicked smart!

  3. #43
    ~Standing My Ground~ Sassy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Disorders do not have to be ego-dystonic, which means they don't have to bother the person affected. Some disorders are ego-syntonic, meaning they don't bother the person affected but they tend to cause dysfunction or harm.
    Yes, and Pedophilic Disorder is one of those. Whether the person feels any distress or impairment is moot if they act on their desires. But most disorders rather than MIs have distress or impairment as a criterion.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassy View Post
    Yes, and Pedophilic Disorder is one of those. Whether the person feels any distress or impairment is moot if they act on their desires. But most disorders rather than MIs have distress or impairment as a criterion.
    This sounds closer to agreeable. The DSM distinguishes between "orientation" and "disorder" based on whether there's distress or impairment. That seems liberally defined but if there's no distress, no impairment, and self-report backed by objective assessment of no propensity of acting out sexually with children, the "disorder" diagnosis isn't met per the manual, but orientation is if the person has that attraction.

    That notwithstanding, society's overwhelming revulsion to anyone with sexual attraction to pre-pubescent children means there's no practical difference between identifying "oriention" vs. "disorder."

    I guess the question this thread raises is whether liberals want to change society's overwhelming revulsion. Do they?
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 4th September 2017 at 04:04 PM.

  5. #45
    ~Standing My Ground~ Sassy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    This sounds closer to agreeable. The DSM distinguishes between "orientation" and "disorder" based on whether there's distress or impairment. That seems liberally defined but if there's no distress, no impairment, and self-report backed by objective assessment of no propensity of acting out sexually with children, the "disorder" diagnosis isn't met per the manual, but orientation is if the person has that attraction.

    That notwithstanding, society's overwhelming revulsion to anyone with sexual attraction to pre-pubescent children means there's no practical difference between identifying "oriention" vs. "disorder."

    I guess the question this thread raises is whether liberals want to change society's overwhelming revulsion. Do they?
    Pedophilia now, as as opposed to Pedophilic Disorder is a psychiatric condition one may choose for the purposes of getting treatment via insurance, similar to the reasoning behind having gender dysphoria as a psychiatric condition of choice.

    Pedophilia is now separated out of the disorder category to remove the stigma of it.
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  6. #46
    New Member Havelock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassy View Post
    OMG it is a huge change to remove pedophilia as a disorder! It's still there as a paraphilia, but not a disorder.
    Nothing has been removed. Again, the diagnostic criteria have not changed in the newest edition of the DSM. You get that, right? That means that anyone liable to be diagnosed with a mental disorder related to pedophilia under the older version of the DSM is just as liable now.

    Fact is, all of sources cited here have acknowledged that the description of the disorder and the criteria necessary to be diagnosed with it have not changed. At all... The only thing that has changed is the name of the disorder: if one meets the diagnostic criteria then one is now diagnosed with "pedophilic disorder" rather than "pedophilia." Are you really suggesting that this represents a "huge" change?

    For the record, per the APA this name change was made in keeping with an overall change in terminology relative to all paraphilias. The contention that this was done to help "normalize" sexual assault of minors is slanderous. And ridiculous...

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  7. #47
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    Nothing has changed except that pedophilia is no longer a disorder. There is a new name for pedophiles who have a disorder. And the pedophiles have a separate category of a psychiatric condition that is one of choice.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassy View Post
    Nothing has changed except that pedophilia is no longer a disorder. There is a new name for pedophiles who have a disorder.
    And anyone who doesn't qualify for a diagnosis of "pedophilic disorder" today also would not have qualified for a diagnosis of "pedophilia" before. Nothing has changed in terms of diagnosis and treatment. Simple as that... If you want to hang all of this significance on a change in diagnostic terminology, I think it behooves you to support that with something more than histrionics and innuendo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sassy
    And the pedophiles have a separate category of a psychiatric condition that is one of choice.
    I have no idea what you mean by that or how it relates to the DSM.

    Cheers.

  9. #49
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassy View Post
    I don't agree that the change is minor. I think it is huge that it's no longer a disorder to have sexual urges and fantasies about children.
    What, in general defines a mental disorder? Forget the sexual aspect. I am talking about any disorder. What, in your opinion, is the crucial criteria in determining the existence of a mental disorder?
    Last edited by Czernobog; 4th September 2017 at 07:12 PM.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havelock View Post
    And anyone who doesn't qualify for a diagnosis of "pedophilic disorder" today also would not have qualified for a diagnosis of "pedophilia" before. Nothing has changed in terms of diagnosis and treatment. Simple as that... If you want to hang all of this significance on a change in diagnostic terminology, I think it behooves you to support that with something more than histrionics and innuendo.



    I have no idea what you mean by that or how it relates to the DSM.

    Cheers.
    What I mean is pedophilia still exists in the DSM but not as a disorder. It's a psychiatric diagnosis essentially of choice. So that pedophiles can get treatment covered through insurance. Which I don't know why they'd WANT treatment, since if they were BOTHERED by it they'd have pedophiliac disorder!

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