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Thread: Do liberals want to make the world safe for child molesters?

  1. #51
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    What, in general defines a mental disorder? Forget the sexual aspect. I am talking about any disorder. What, in your opinion, is the crucial criteria in determining the existence of a mental disorder?
    Uh...unless you don't have an answer, this question was directed at you, @Sassy.

  2. #52
    ~Standing My Ground~ Sassy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    Uh...unless you don't have an answer, this question was directed at you, @Sassy.
    You're going to have to wait. I don't have the brain for this right now. There is not a simple answer to such a broad question.
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  3. #53
    The Un-Holy One The Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    What, in general defines a mental disorder? Forget the sexual aspect. I am talking about any disorder. What, in your opinion, is the crucial criteria in determining the existence of a mental disorder?
    Behavior. Abnormal behavior. Which could include strange speech, gestures, erratic movements (running, jumping around, perhaps deliberately running into/striking walls or something).

    But, of course, some mentally disturbed people are able to act, more or less, normal, and conceal their defect for a time.

    But, it always ends up coming out through their words or, especially, actions. A psychopath will always end up trying to hurt other people somehow. Severity differs, from passive aggression, stalking someone after a broken off relationship, shit like that; to actual murder. But, something will happen, inevitably.

  4. #54
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    Behavior. Abnormal behavior. Which could include strange speech, gestures, erratic movements (running, jumping around, perhaps deliberately running into/striking walls or something).

    But, of course, some mentally disturbed people are able to act, more or less, normal, and conceal their defect for a time.

    But, it always ends up coming out through their words or, especially, actions. A psychopath will always end up trying to hurt other people somehow. Severity differs, from passive aggression, stalking someone after a broken off relationship, shit like that; to actual murder. But, something will happen, inevitably.
    As such, by your own definition, a person who is sexually attracted to prepubescent children, and never acts on it, cannot be diagnosed as suffering pedophilia as a disorder. Which is precisely what the new DSM says.

    You may find the desire "sick", "icky", "inappropriate", or any other label you wish to attach to it, but it is not, in itself, a disorder.
    Last edited by Czernobog; 6th September 2017 at 08:26 PM.
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  5. #55
    ~Standing My Ground~ Sassy's Avatar
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    Disorder. Psychiatric condition. Semantics to remove stigma but allow coverage through insurance for treatment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    What, in general defines a mental disorder? Forget the sexual aspect. I am talking about any disorder. What, in your opinion, is the crucial criteria in determining the existence of a mental disorder?
    The American Psychiatric Association publishes the "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders". Perhaps, that could be an initial source to answer your question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassy View Post
    Disorder. Psychiatric condition. Semantics to remove stigma but allow coverage through insurance for treatment.
    Maybe that's true. Maybe they think insurance should "cover" it because it can be covered. As in, you can engage that person in therapy and completely cure them by uncovering something that motivates them. You can't "cure" a predator compelled to attack children by talking about their father or whatever. But you may be able to walk somebody out of the maze that is basically just confused, expressing some sort of trauma through their fantasies, that sort of thing. If I were a scientist examining those two phenomena, I might believe that viewing those two kinds of things as different would be closer to the truth of things.

    But I'm not a psychiatrist. I do know that science often presents information in ways that are readily misinterpreted by lay people, though. The word "theory" itself means something completely different to a scientist, just as an example.

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    No mercy for losers Addiction Solitaire Champion, Double Deuce Champion, Queen Jewels Champion, Ray Ray Shuffle Champion, Twins Champion, Blow Up: Arcade Champion, Bunch - Time Trial Champion, Znax Champion, Zoo Keeper Champion, Sobics School Champion, Swap a Smiley Champion, Makos Champion, Dino Drop Champion, Flower Frenzy Champion, Some Puzzle Champion, Funny Bubbles Champion, CubeZ Champion, Dinky Smash Champion, Fun Fun Animals Champion, Fruit Fabriek Champion, Raft Wars Champion, Rainbow Monkey RunDown Champion, Raft Wars Champion, Crime Puzzle Champion Blueneck's Avatar
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    Lots of encouragement out there for pedophiles in the name of art commerce. Not sure where the line should be drawn.
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  9. #59
    ~Standing My Ground~ Sassy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by splansing View Post
    Maybe that's true. Maybe they think insurance should "cover" it because it can be covered. As in, you can engage that person in therapy and completely cure them by uncovering something that motivates them. You can't "cure" a predator compelled to attack children by talking about their father or whatever. But you may be able to walk somebody out of the maze that is basically just confused, expressing some sort of trauma through their fantasies, that sort of thing. If I were a scientist examining those two phenomena, I might believe that viewing those two kinds of things as different would be closer to the truth of things.

    But I'm not a psychiatrist. I do know that science often presents information in ways that are readily misinterpreted by lay people, though. The word "theory" itself means something completely different to a scientist, just as an example.
    OK, but a person seeking treatment would be because having these thoughts, urges, fantasies bothers them. If it bothers them, then it's supposed to kicked into the disorder category. It's a strange end-run.

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    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWahoo View Post
    The American Psychiatric Association publishes the "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders". Perhaps, that could be an initial source to answer your question.
    Except that's the very determination that Sassy is taking issue with:

    1. a behavioral or psychological syndrome or pattern that occurs in an individual
    2. the consequences of which are clinically significant distress (e.g., a painful symptom) or disability (i.e., impairment in one or more important areas of functioning)
    3. must not be merely an expectable response to common stressors and losses (for example, the loss of a loved one) or a culturally sanctioned response to a particular event (for example, trance states in religious rituals)
    4. that reflects an underlying psychobiological dysfunction
    5. that is not solely a result of social deviance or conflicts with society
    6. that has diagnostic validity using one or more sets of diagnostic validators (e.g., prognostic significance, psychobiological disruption, response to treatment)
    7. that has clinical utility (for example, contributes to better conceptualization of diagnoses, or to better assessment and treatment)

    Since Sassy seems to take issue with this characterization of a mental disorder, I was looking for her understanding of what a mental disorder is. (For the record, that list of conditions comes directly from the DSM-5)
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