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Thread: A Simple Question for Those Who Oppose Same Sex Marriage

  1. #21
    Polemicist Supremum Monk-Eye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProgressivePatriot View Post
    Maybe.....if Kathy had a will and named Angela as the guardian. But she was young and never thought of that. In this case it is not a done deal. Aside from that, having married parents who are both the legal guardian of the children in life has many other legal, financial and social benefits.
    Just because someone becomes married to another , whom is not the biological parent of the child , that does not specifically grant guardianship of body for the child to the non biological parent .

    Should someone decide to marry some ones ex , that other someone is not entitled to life decisions for the child , relative to wishes of the biological parent .

    First and foremost , individuals are accountable for , and responsible to , their chance at an after life through the continuance of their genetic identity .

  2. #22
    Voice of Reason ProgressivePatriot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk-Eye View Post
    " Direct Cause "

    * Fantasy Fiction *

    Just because someone becomes married to another , whom is not the biological parent of the child , that does not specifically grant guardianship of body for the child to the non biological parent .
    I'm aware of that. What I said was that Angela was not about to a legal parent to the kids in that jurisdiction because they were not married

    Quote Originally Posted by Monk-Eye View Post
    Should someone decide to marry some ones ex , that other someone is not entitled to life decisions for the child , relative to wishes of the biological parent .
    I am aware of that too. But perhaps you missed the part about the bio parent in this case not giving a damn about the kid and that he would have probably relinquished his parental rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Monk-Eye View Post
    First and foremost , individuals are accountable for , and responsible to , their chance at an after life through the continuance of their genetic identity
    What?? !! Do you really think that you have an argument against same sex marriage or the fact that marriage benefits children??
    Last edited by ProgressivePatriot; 18th November 2017 at 01:43 PM.

  3. #23
    Polemicist Supremum Monk-Eye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProgressivePatriot View Post
    Bans against same-sex marriage are unconstitutional as a matter of law because they punish children in an effort to control the conduct of adults.
    Not all wrights and liberties are the same .

    In other words , just because individuals would have a negative liberty to enter into a civil contract of their choosing , that does not necessarily entitle them to positive liberties , from positive wrights by the state , based upon that civil contract .

    An incompetence of the legal system , along with its " supposed " legal scholars , to relate the meaning for " marriage " , as a positive wright , is blatantly obvious - Amicus Merit Brief on Same Sex Marriage to the Supreme Court of The United States .
    Thanks from pragmatic

  4. #24
    Polemicist Supremum Monk-Eye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProgressivePatriot View Post
    I'm aware of that. What I said was that Angela was not about to a legal parent to the kids in that jurisdiction because they were not married
    A spouse must adopt the children of another before they receive guardianship of body over the child ; marriage does not grant that to them .

    Quote Originally Posted by ProgressivePatriot View Post
    I am aware of that too. But perhaps you missed the part about the bio parent in this case not giving a damn about the kid and that he would have probably relinquished his parental rights
    That has nothing to do with the process of legal guardianship or the negligence of individuals to pursue it .

    Quote Originally Posted by ProgressivePatriot View Post
    What?? !! Do you really think that you have an argument against same sex marriage or the fact that marriage benefits children??
    My arguments provide the political science terms by which to rationalize the meaning of wrights , as it would apply to " marriage " ; and , while it does not dictate a conclusion , it does provision that not all civil contracts are equivalent and represent a single category .

  5. #25
    Junior Member zaangalewa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pragmatic View Post
    If the OP is a true story it sounds like a tragic loss for the kids.
    I don't understand the story. In general I doubt about it will sink the number of mothers, who have to take care for their children alone because families will not exist any longer.

    Do hope they end up with the "angela" player.
    Hope? ...

    Never had an issue with civil unions.
    Civil Union ... "eingetragene Lebenspartnerschaft" ... the German word is a monster compared with this word. "civil union" (German: "Zivilehe") is a good word: short and accurate. It avoids to use the word marriage. What the states of the world are doing in case of civil unions is another problem than the holiness of marriage.

    As i recall that was the goal of the movement at one point. Goal posts moved.

    Would have preferred the word (and institution) of "marriage" be reserved for one man and one woman.

    But that isn't the way it turned out. No biggie, i'll survive it.
    It's perhaps wise not to waste psychological energy in problems no one seems to be able to solve. But it satisfies not to see to die everything in the world.


  6. #26
    Junior Member zaangalewa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProgressivePatriot View Post
    What is perhaps most interesting about the evolution of this issue is that to date all the courts addressing the question have missed one remarkably simple proposition:

    Bans against same-sex marriage are unconstitutional as a matter of law because they punish children in an effort to control the conduct of adults.
    I do not fight against women and children.

    Punishing children for matters beyond their control
    Who punishes children? A man and a woman marry. They have children. Their village (=institutions and social networks) helps them to educate their children.

    is patently impermissible as a matter of Supreme Court precedent regarding the constitutional rights of children. In the first of these cases, ( Levy vs Louisiana – )

    https://supreme.justia.com/cases/fed...1/68/case.html

    The court considered a Louisiana law that forbade children born out of wedlock from receiving benefits upon the wrongful death of their mother. Louisiana argued that the law was a perfectly legitimate means of expressing moral disapproval of extramarital liaisons. The Supreme Court, however, determined that the law violated equal protection because it is fundamentally unfair and irrational for a state to deny important benefits to children merely to express moral disapproval of the conduct of adults—or to incentivize adults to behave in a particular way.
    Same sex families are artificial. What you say sounds in my ears like "Everyone has the right to own children" - and such an idea will cause slave trades. Adoptions are existing only on reason of catastrophes.

    Last edited by zaangalewa; 18th November 2017 at 08:42 PM.

  7. #27
    Human Bean KnotaFrayed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John T Ford View Post
    I don't think anyone in their right mind would say that the children's best interest was served in this case.

    I have no problem with some sort of civil union to give people equal rights under the law.

    My issue is with calling it marriage.

    It is not.

    To say so would be to redefine the term marriage.
    Redefine marriage, in what way? Where exactly is marriage defined ONLY as heterosexual? If you're thinking a passage about DIVORCE in the Bible, the notion that it dictates marriage is ONLY to be between a man and a woman is debatable as trying to suggest that Christians eating pork or shellfish is an abomination, the same as the Old Testament calls it such, along with homosexuality. Perhaps if you practice Judaism or Islam, you could find something more direct about the "sins" of homosexuality, but you would also find the same about ADULTERY. If one is obsessed about homosexual marriage, then why not the same obsession about ADULTERY, especially when it comes to electing an ADULTERER to lead one's nation, even as one claims to want to bar people from equal rights based on homosexuality?

    Also, what EXACTLY is the difference between a "civil union" and "marriage"? Marriage is defined as a UNION......

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage



    mar·riage
    ˈmerij'
    noun
    noun: marriage; plural noun: marriages
    1.
    the legally or formally recognized union of two people as partners in a personal relationship (historically and in some jurisdictions specifically a union between a man and a woman).
    "a happy marriage"

    synonyms: wedding, wedding ceremony, marriage ceremony, nuptials, union
    "the marriage took place at St. Margaret's"

    antonyms: divorce, separation

    the state of being married.
    "they were celebrating 50 years of marriage"
    synonyms: (holy) matrimony, wedlock
    "a proposal of marriage"


    2.
    a combination or mixture of two or more elements.
    "a marriage of jazz, pop, blues, and gospel"

    synonyms: union, alliance, fusion, mixture, mix, blend, amalgamation, combination, merger
    "a marriage of jazz, pop, and gospel"

    antonyms: separation
    (in pinochle and other card games) a combination of a king and queen of the same suit.


    https://www.google.com/search?q=marr...hrome&ie=UTF-8
    Last edited by KnotaFrayed; 18th November 2017 at 08:53 PM.

  8. #28
    Junior Member zaangalewa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProgressivePatriot View Post
    Marriage is still the foundation of the family.
    What a nonsense. If two homosexual men are producing children by misusing women in a complex technical procedure than this has a lot to do with new modern forms of slavery but not with traditional values.

    And the family is the foundation of society.
    So why to replace this with baby manufacturers or slave traders or women abusers?

    But now families are different than they were in the past. Two people of the same sex have as much a right to call themselves a family as anyone else.
    "Right" is a formal structure without any relevance in anything what is reality. That's why we need to control laws. A man and a man are always only two men. A man and a woman are able to be more than a man and a woman: they can have for example children on their own.


    Times change, society as well as sexual and social norm and standards evolve, even if some individuals do not.
    It "evolves" nothing only because human beings make some new rules.

    Your appeal to tradition logically fallacy with change nothing.
    A completely new form of reproduction of a species is nothing some people working on desks in dark backgrounds are able to decide, only because they found methods how to manipulate the masses with new forms of political propaganda. Such questions are perhaps an expression of an existential crisis.

    Last edited by zaangalewa; 18th November 2017 at 09:29 PM.

  9. #29
    Junior Member zaangalewa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProgressivePatriot View Post
    You don't understand what the problem is?
    Exactly. A family has problem because the father has a criminal mind. The solution is the mother and her two children have to marry another woman. Strange.

    Well, I explained it in great detail so I don't know how else to help you.
    You can give some money to a social institution which helps mothers. Because of your good deed I will not go to hell and this will help me a lot.

    As far as male role models go,
    Cars are silver, black and grey - bigger, with more horsepower and more aggressive faces. "Grey" - from white to black - is anyway the dominating color everywhere in the western world. I see the female influence go (emotionality, colors, laughter, ... ) and the male influence dominating (lies, aggressions, racism, conflicts, ...).

    the two moms are not the only people in the lives of these children. They will have plenty of exposure to both genders. In addition, traditional gender roles are much less important now, with men and women doing many of the same things.
    Women are working in mines and men with beards show fashion for women. What a nice world.

    There is a mountain of research on this issueand the consensus is that children of same sex parents do as well as any
    If I take the genetic structure of a man - combine this genetic structure with the genetic structure of another man ... use the genetic information of a third person to give this new created genetic structure the identification of a female line and get an ovum of a forth human being and pay afterwards a women to become the mother of all this packed adulterate genes without the right to be the mother of this child ... then I'm sure it exists a lot of research and a lot of money and a lot of consensus to do so. Nevertheless not a reason for me to be enthusiastic.

    as any and that there are many more important aspect of parenting. It is all out there for anyone who is interested.

    Now, let me ask you this.....even if a child were at some disadvantage not having a mother and a father, would it be better for the children like the ones in my story becoming a ward of the state? Think about it.
    I would try to do what's the best for this child of god - independent from anything else.

    Last edited by zaangalewa; 19th November 2017 at 02:10 AM.

  10. #30
    Junior Member Two If By Tea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John T Ford View Post
    I don't think anyone in their right mind would say that the children's best interest was served in this case.

    I have no problem with some sort of civil union to give people equal rights under the law.

    My issue is with calling it marriage.

    It is not.

    To say so would be to redefine the term marriage.

    Well with all these Republican controlled states over regulating the Abortion idustry they hadda let same sex couples adopt so there would be enough foster homes to accomodate all the extra kids because planned parenthood shut their doors.

    Boils down to basic concept of Supply & Demand

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