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Thread: F-35 Where do we go from here?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Exactly, but Bush pushed that crap on the military despite concerted expertise along the lines of what you just said, and got most allied nations on the bandwagon.

    Obama, as with so many other issues, simply ignored the problems that started to result, and more or less is still ignoring them.

    I mean, for crying out loud, they want the thing to replace A-10. It can't even feed the pilot oxygen correctly and they want it to provide close air support...
    Not knowing who your future enemy is it's hard to equip your military and do it at a reasonable cost. Don't need an F22 to fight ISIS but you will to fight China or Russia. Buying smaller numbers of F22 or F35's runs the unit cost up. Will an A10
    still be serviceable well into the future, spare parts and such? My concerns is the F35 may never achieve what it was intended to do. To heavy for one engine to reliably make it perform. So software intense that it may be unreliable to keep
    it flying without excessive maintenance intervention. So expensive you are scared to use it as intended for fear of losing it.
    I guess we are in so deep now we have to keep going with it.
    Thanks from justagurlinseattle

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    I've heard about that before, but I've also heard that B-52 is stable enough to fly at least for a limited period of time with the tail off.

    Osprey had crashes following complete mechanical failure that killed double-digit figures more than once. That should've ended it.
    And an F-15 has been safely landed with the entire right wing assembly severed. Feats of flight don't change either the underlying advantages or disadvantages of a design.

  3. #53
    Established Member Redwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THOR View Post
    Not knowing who your future enemy is it's hard to equip your military and do it at a reasonable cost. Don't need an F22 to fight ISIS but you will to fight China or Russia. Buying smaller numbers of F22 or F35's runs the unit cost up. Will an A10
    still be serviceable well into the future, spare parts and such? My concerns is the F35 may never achieve what it was intended to do. To heavy for one engine to reliably make it perform. So software intense that it may be unreliable to keep
    it flying without excessive maintenance intervention. So expensive you are scared to use it as intended for fear of losing it.
    I guess we are in so deep now we have to keep going with it.
    The magical F-35 version is the one intended for the USMC....likely the most complex-expensive. It does VTOL...like a Harrier but is stealthy..can do supersonic, has a good payload. Having versions for USN and USAF.. helps make it more affordable


    I am a big fan of the A-10 Warthog. It is as close as it gets to a flying tank. The Air Force never appreciated it.. the Army loves it. It was built and designed to be damn tough, to get up close. Nothing else compares. We ought to revive it.. build MORE..not retire what we have. Gulf War #1... the Warthogs were devestating. You can not do an All Purpose jet that can replace it.. though.. you perhaps CAN do a better Warthog. That said... part of the Warthog's plus is it ain't too hi tech. Like a classic Skillsaw.. its a rugged tool that you don't have to pamper.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Zaragunudgeyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redwood View Post
    The magical F-35 version is the one intended for the USMC....likely the most complex-expensive. It does VTOL...like a Harrier but is stealthy..can do supersonic, has a good payload. Having versions for USN and USAF.. helps make it more affordable


    I am a big fan of the A-10 Warthog. It is as close as it gets to a flying tank. The Air Force never appreciated it.. the Army loves it. It was built and designed to be damn tough, to get up close. Nothing else compares. We ought to revive it.. build MORE..not retire what we have. Gulf War #1... the Warthogs were devestating. You can not do an All Purpose jet that can replace it.. though.. you perhaps CAN do a better Warthog. That said... part of the Warthog's plus is it ain't too hi tech. Like a classic Skillsaw.. its a rugged tool that you don't have to pamper.
    I understand that plane [i love it too] is being used against ISIS. It would seem like the ideal theatre for the warthog. It might be a tad bit overkill however, as that plane with that outrageous multi-barrel cannon was made to kill tanks. I don't think ISIS has too many tanks.

  5. #55
    Veteran Member Dutch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THOR View Post
    This mega dollar project appears to still be a wreck. Way over cost, under performing, unable to sell it.

    This article is a few months old and there are still serious issues.

    America's F-35: Coming In for a "Crash Landing"? | The National Interest

    The F-35 is double-inferior,Ē John Stillion and Harold Scott Perdue concluded in their written summary of the war game, later leaked to the press. The new plane ďcanít turn, canít climb, canít run,Ē they warned.
    Why from here we go onto the next great military procurement disaster of course. The "defense" industry isn't about "defense" at all. It's basically just a big giveaway to corporations. If actual "defense" was involved this nation would have control over its borders.
    Thanks from THOR

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    Why from here we go onto the next great military procurement disaster of course. The "defense" industry isn't about "defense" at all. It's basically just a big giveaway to corporations. If actual "defense" was involved this nation would have control over its borders.
    And speaking of "the next next great military procurement disaster" in yesterdays newspaper was:

    PLANNED BOMBER SETS OFF JOBS FIGHT

    Need for new plane debated, but need for work sure thing

    Melody Peterson Los Angeles Times

    "The Pentagon is ready to spend billions to build a new stealth bomber...

    You're talking about a $2 billion airplane by the time they build it said Thomas Christie, who worked as a top analyst inside the Pentagon for more than three decades...

    Outgoing Defense Secretary Hagel said the Long Range Strike Bomber is absolutely essential...

    It's already being funded by the Pentagon's classified "black budget"...

    Northrop, Lockheed, and Boeing, are all fighting to get the contract...

    The last bomber contract (B-2) was so far over budget that the Pentagon eventually decided to build just 21 of 132 aircraft planned...

    My favorite part: They want it also to one day be capable of flying as a drone.

    Ain't America great?
    Last edited by Miller47; 16th February 2015 at 05:39 PM.

  7. #57
    Veteran Member Dutch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller47 View Post
    And speaking of "the next next great military procurement disaster" in yesterdays newspaper was:

    PLANNED BOMBER SETS OFF JOBS FIGHT

    Need for new plane debated, but need for work sure thing

    Melody Peterson Los Angeles Times

    "The Pentagon is ready to spend billions to build a new stealth bomber...

    You're talking about a $2 billion airplane by the time they build it said Thomas Christie, who worked as a top analyst inside the Pentagon for more than three decades...

    Outgoing Defense Secretary Hagel said the Long Range Strike Bomber is absolutely essential...

    It's already being funded by the Pentagon's classified "black budget"...

    Northrop, Lockheed, and Boeing, are all fighting to get the contract...

    The last bomber contract (B-2) was so far over budget that the Pentagon eventually decided to build just 21 of 132 aircraft planned...

    My favorite part: They want it also to one day be capable of flying as a drone.

    Ain't America great?
    My part of it is.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    My part of it is.
    Mine is pretty good, too.

    About this new bomber that we just HAVE to have...

    If they want a drone, why not just build a drone?

    A manned bomber that can be converted to a drone...seems a little redundant.

    Yes, America's still great.

  9. #59
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    The B-2 bomber was way over budget in large part because the bomber was nearly fully designed when the Pentagon suddenly made a massive change in its requirements.

    In the mid 1980s, they suddenly told Northrop that they wanted the B-2 to have low level capability (originally the B-2 was not going to fly much below 5,000 feet on combat missions). Low level capability required a massive design change down to the basic structure.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dayton3 View Post
    The B-2 bomber was way over budget in large part because the bomber was nearly fully designed when the Pentagon suddenly made a massive change in its requirements.
    And who's to say that the Pentagon won't do the same thing again to this new bomber?

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