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Thread: Canada and Australia

  1. #11
    Vexatious Correspondent Leo2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    I don't know exactly what was involved in Australia getting the forces they needed overseas.

    I know for us in Canada, when we wanted NATO to take action in Libya, had an actual foreign policy goal to overthrow Ghadaffi, had Germany and France and UK on board.... we couldn't do it. We all ended up going cap in hand to Obama and took the domestic public opinion hit to help us all out by taking command of the mission. The US took a non-combat role, except cruise missiles, but France and U.K. could have handled that. It was US command and satellites that we needed.

    That shouldn't be the case.

    We need a plan B. It's not 1945 anymore.
    From what I have read of the matter (this happened when I was like two years old and living on the other side of the world,) Australia thought it had the matter in hand, and had no idea that it would be facing a good part of the Indonesian army and air force, not to mention thousands of pro-Indonesian militia men. Timor had voted for independence but suddenly found their citizens were being systematically slaughtered by Indonesian military and local militia. Australia had to act quickly, and mobilise all the forces available.

    The important point, IMO, is that Australia did not need to ask 'family' for assistance. Canada, New Zealand, and the UK, all automatically sent ground forces to bolster the Aussies, whilst their official ally (under the terms of ANZUS) politely declined.

    So I find the criticisms and implications of national cowardice contained in the OP more than somewhat impertinent.

  2. #12
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo2 View Post
    From what I have read of the matter (this happened when I was like two years old and living on the other side of the world,) Australia thought it had the matter in hand, and had no idea that it would be facing a good part of the Indonesian army and air force, not to mention thousands of pro-Indonesian militia men. Timor had voted for independence but suddenly found their citizens were being systematically slaughtered by Indonesian military and local militia. Australia had to act quickly, and mobilise all the forces available.

    The important point, IMO, is that Australia did not need to ask 'family' for assistance. Canada, New Zealand, and the UK, all automatically sent ground forces to bolster the Aussies, whilst their official ally (under the terms of ANZUS) politely declined.

    So I find the criticisms and implications of national cowardice contained in the OP more than somewhat impertinent.
    Really? If Can forces were in Timor its news to me.

    Of course a lot of things are news to me.

    (Liberace was GAY????)


    Edit: An infantry company from the 'Van Doos' (Royal 22nd) slotted in as part of a New Zealand Bataliion Group which also included Irish special forces.

    Practically a family reunion.
    Last edited by Dr.Knuckles; 19th August 2017 at 08:53 PM.

  3. #13
    Vexatious Correspondent Leo2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    Really? If Can forces were in Timor its news to me.

    Of course a lot of things are news to me.

    (Liberace was GAY????)
    AFIK, it was called Operation Toucan, in 1999, and involved about 600 military personnel and the Canadian replenishment ship Protecteur (as part of INTERFET). And to be fair to the US it contributed the amphibious assault ships Belleau Wood, Peleliu, and Juneau, to help ferry the Australian troops to Timor. But (I expect for political reasons) it refused to have US troops facing Indonesian troops.

  4. #14
    NWO Toilet Cleaner Blues63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Yeah we keep hearing about how great you guys are in wars.

    Sure your soldiers are but they are soldiers, brave young men and women with no fear.

    That isn't the problem, its not about them.

    But how about one of you two nations lead a charge somewhere.

    There are plenty of messed up situations in the world so go ahead, what are you waiting for?

    How about we back you up for a change.

    No takers?

    Thought so.

    Next time people say we needed these guys to win a war I will break out in hysterical laughter.
    The Commonwealth isn't provocative in foreign policy.

    /thread
    Thanks from Babylon

  5. #15
    The Covfefe are Coming! BitterPill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo2 View Post
    Well, I am a citizen of the UK, but I have visited Canada a few times, and I am currently studying in Australia - so I'm quite interested in (but don't understand) the position you appear to be taking in relation to these two nations.

    What precisely are you expecting Australia - a nation of some twenty odd million - to do, and in relation to what situation? Are you expecting Australia to declare war upon Russia in respect of Crimea? Or perhaps on China, in relation to their man-made islands?

    Neither Australia nor Canada are in the business of empire building, and the last military initiative upon which Australia alone embarked was when it liberated East Timor from Indonesian forces. She did this with (albeit token) assistance from the UK, Canada, New Zealand, Portugal, and Thailand. Australian forces of 4,500 faced an Indonesian force of 22,000 (which it saw retreat), but despite the fact that military assistance was requested from Australia's great and powerful friend across the Pacific (with whom the Aussies share the ANZUS Treaty), the USA refused to send a single soldier. The Australian Foreign Minister was told that it was not in the USA's interest to interfere in Indonesian affairs.

    However, I expect the fact that the Indonesian invasion of East Timor was facilitated by US equipment and intelligence, had some bearing upon the matter, and as the Washington Post put it -



    So, I'm not quite sure why you appear to be criticising Australia and Canada for not bullying smaller nations around the world. Perhaps theirs is the reputation which is preferable - not many Canadians, for example, travel across Europe with US flags on their baggage in the hope that they will be mistaken for Americans - but the reverse has occurred.
    Have you considered that Spookycolt might simply be making a plaintive call for help?

  6. #16
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues63 View Post
    The Commonwealth isn't provocative in foreign policy.

    /thread
    Exactly, they wait for someone else to do the provoking then jump in to take glory.

    Very sad.

  7. #17
    NWO Toilet Cleaner Blues63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Exactly, they wait for someone else to do the provoking then jump in to take glory.

    Very sad.
    That was a pathetically immature post. Commonwealth foreign policy is not antagonistic-that's the difference. Your lies are merely foolish musings.

  8. #18
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues63 View Post
    That was a pathetically immature post. Commonwealth foreign policy is not antagonistic-that's the difference. Your lies are merely foolish musings.
    Then why do they join after the fact?

    Obviously they think its a good cause so why not lead the charge?

  9. #19
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Did Canada or Australia not think WWII was a good cause?

    Why didn't they mount their own attacks?

    Why did they wait for the US to bring them over to the fight?

  10. #20
    NWO Toilet Cleaner Blues63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Then why do they join after the fact?
    Oh fuck. Did you really just post that stupidity? Ok, if America starts a war with its antagonistic foreign policy, then any ally that supports this action will automatically 'join after the fact'. Have you any education at all?

    Obviously they think its a good cause so why not lead the charge?
    See above for your confused causation.

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