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Thread: Ukraine to attack Crimea with drones???

  1. #11
    The Un-Holy One The Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    They probably see the presidency of Trump as an opening so are doing what they can. Trump is unpredictable - so Putin likely doesn't know if the president would intervene or not. His actions in Syria would seem to indicate he might get involved. So I'm not sure if Putin is quite as brazen about retaliating as others might suggest.

    If I was heading up Ukraine I would be trying to get my country back also. And let's not forget - if anything provokes bullies like Putin it's weakness. Though I can't fault the realism of your logic - because Crimea is probably lost to them for good.
    Crimea is not Ukraine, dude. Never really was, nor wanted to be. Just a fact...

  2. #12
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller47 View Post
    I can understand why they would want to try.

    They should acknowledge reality, though.

    Putin could crush them, and more importantly WOULD crush them, if so inclined.

    They should not provoke Putin.

    He seems inclined to use his military might without restraint to get what he wants.
    Wow.

    I’m surprised.

    Let’s hope word doesn’t get out that Americans think when someone invades their territory they should roll over, accept it fully, get over it, and just slavishly bow to the aggressor.

    Funny - two generations ago no one in the US was saying “we just have to accept that The Phillipines is Japanese now”.
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  3. #13
    The Un-Holy One The Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    Wow.

    I’m surprised.

    Let’s hope word doesn’t get out that Americans think when someone invades their territory they should roll over, accept it fully, get over it, and just slavishly bow to the aggressor.

    Funny - two generations ago no one in the US was saying “we just have to accept that The Phillipines is Japanese now”.
    Different context, my friend. Philippines were not populated (in majority) by fellow Japanese people. Who were basically severed from their kind by the will of some Commie dictator a few decades back. Just saying...

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    Different context, my friend. Philippines were not populated (in majority) by fellow Japanese people. Who were basically severed from their kind by the will of some Commie dictator a few decades back. Just saying...
    Yep, also depends on the defense treaties with different countries.

    What was the old saying?

    "Better Red than dead".

    Maybe Dr K thinks the US should go to war with Russia over Ukraine...

  5. #15
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller47 View Post
    Yep, also depends on the defense treaties with different countries.

    What was the old saying?

    "Better Red than dead".

    Maybe Dr K thinks the US should go to war with Russia over Ukraine...
    I don’t think the US anything. No one invaded the US.

    I think if a country invaded and occupied a part of MY country, killing tens of thousands of my countrymen, I’d NOT accept it, I’d I’d NOT get over it, and if regular military means we’re insufficient then I’d take up irregular means, like drones, geurilla strikes etc until they got the fucking message. For 5 years, 10,20 or 50. As long as it took. So that no one would ever, for a second, even consider doing that again.

    So since that’s what I’d do, and people are people, I have to assume that’s what a lot of Ukrainians would do.

    I thought most Americans would see that the same way as me. If not, maybe I should plan a little raiding party into WA state. Take some land for myself. I didn’t know I’d be so easily forgiven and recognized as the proper owner.

    Maybe something downtown. Close to the waterfront. I don’t need much.
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    I don’t think the US anything. No one invaded the US.

    I think if a country invaded and occupied a part of MY country, killing tens of thousands of my countrymen, I’d NOT accept it, I’d I’d NOT get over it, and if regular military means we’re insufficient then I’d take up irregular means, like drones, geurilla strikes etc until they got the fucking message. For 5 years, 10,20 or 50. As long as it took. So that no one would ever, for a second, even consider doing that again.

    So since that’s what I’d do, and people are people, I have to assume that’s what a lot of Ukrainians would do.

    I thought most Americans would see that the same way as me. If not, maybe I should plan a little raiding party into WA state. Take some land for myself. I didn’t know I’d be so easily forgiven and recognized as the proper owner.

    Maybe something downtown. Close to the waterfront. I don’t need much.
    I can understand them wanting to fight back.

    Definitely sympathize with them, and I would have some of those same feelings.

    But, let's be real...if Putin decides to take the rest of Ukraine he will do it.

    And I don't think anyone will stop him.

    Risk WWIII to save Ukraine?

    Nobody wants THAT deal.
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  7. #17
    The Un-Holy One The Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    I don’t think the US anything. No one invaded the US.

    I think if a country invaded and occupied a part of MY country, killing tens of thousands of my countrymen, I’d NOT accept it, I’d I’d NOT get over it, and if regular military means we’re insufficient then I’d take up irregular means, like drones, geurilla strikes etc until they got the fucking message. For 5 years, 10,20 or 50. As long as it took. So that no one would ever, for a second, even consider doing that again.

    So since that’s what I’d do, and people are people, I have to assume that’s what a lot of Ukrainians would do.

    I thought most Americans would see that the same way as me. If not, maybe I should plan a little raiding party into WA state. Take some land for myself. I didn’t know I’d be so easily forgiven and recognized as the proper owner.

    Maybe something downtown. Close to the waterfront. I don’t need much.
    At least half of those thousands of people (killed in the DONBASS, btw, not CRIMEA, where actually nobody died in the annexation, precisely because nobody resisted, because nobody wanted to) died at the hands of own Ukrainian military, which fired (and still does occasionally) on populated areas with artillery and missiles.

    Again, you are not getting the context here. In Crimea, yes, regular Russian troops came in, thousands of regular Ukrainian troops on the ground surrendered or deserted, others basically fled to mainland Ukraine, and that was that, Russia annexed Crimea, no fighting, no bloodshed. Then, in Donbass, actual fighting broke out, between local separatist forces, aided by volunteers and mercenaries from Russia and elsewhere (Central Asians, Abkhazians, Belarusians, Serbs, some various West Europeans, couple Americans, etc) and some regular Russian forces against regular Ukrainian military and National Guard and SBU troops, aided by mainly nationalist, far right volunteer militias, and also volunteers/mercenaries from abroad (Georgians, Croats, and also some Western Europeans, and a couple Canadians, and an American, et al). And the Ukrainian government troops have themselves been on the receiving end of guerrilla warfare in there.

    It is a much, much more complex conflict than "bad Russia" vs. "good Ukraine".

  8. #18
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller47 View Post
    I can understand them wanting to fight back.

    Definitely sympathize with them, and I would have some of those same feelings.

    But, let's be real...if Putin decides to take the rest of Ukraine he will do it.

    And I don't think anyone will stop him.

    Risk WWIII to save Ukraine?

    Nobody wants THAT deal.


    Can you explain how that differs from Neville Chamberlain saying “I’ve agreed to let Hitler invade and occupy the German speaking Sudetenland, and he’s agreed to stop there. I’ve achieved peace for our time”.

    Should the Czechs have accepted that the German parts Hitler invaded were his now, and not fought back? I don’t get it?

    I can understand Norwegians or Japanese or Eskimos “accepting” that Crimea is Russia now, for the reasons you’ve stated. Who cares. But I would never expect a Ukrainian to “accept” that. They know full well Russia’s not stopping. Putin’s plans of restoring total economic and military dominance over previous territories is not a “theory”. He’s very explicit about it.

    They can fight back now or later. Those are their two options.
    Last edited by Dr.Knuckles; 11th January 2018 at 04:28 PM.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    Can you explain how that differs from Neville Chamberlain saying “I’ve agreed to let Hitler invade and occupy the German speaking Sudetenland, and he’s agreed to stop there. I’ve achieved peace for our time”.

    Should the Czechs have accepted that the German parts Hitler invaded were his now, and not fought back? I don’t get it?

    I can understand Norwegians or Japanese or Eskimos “accepting” that Crimea is Russia now, for the reasons you’ve stated. Who cares. But I would never expect a Ukrainian to “accept” that. They know full well Russia’s not stopping. Putin’s plans of restoring total economic and military dominance over previous territories is not a “theory”. He’s very explicit about it.

    They can fight back now or later. Those are their two options.
    Nuclear weapons.

    That would be the first explanation.

    Didn't have to worry about those things back then.
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  10. #20
    The Un-Holy One The Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    Can you explain how that differs from Neville Chamberlain saying “I’ve agreed to let Hitler invade and occupy the German speaking Sudetenland, and he’s agreed to stop there. I’ve achieved peace for our time”.

    Should the Czechs have accepted that the German parts Hitler invaded were his now, and not fought back? I don’t get it?

    I can understand Norwegians or Japanese or Eskimos “accepting” that Crimea is Russia now, for the reasons you’ve stated. Who cares. But I would never expect a Ukrainian to “accept” that. They know full well Russia’s not stopping. Putin’s plans of restoring total economic and military dominance over previous territories is not a “theory”. He’s very explicit about it.

    They can fight back now or later. Those are their two options.
    This woman

    left her two small sons behind with her parents, and hid her pregnancy, to go join a militia


    She and those like her did not go to fight for Putin. They went to defend their land, THEIR Donbass.

    From people (not all, but plenty of them) who draw Nazi SS runes on themselves, proudly


    Here is a girl who lost a leg, fighting those same people, the ones Canada supports and want to give weapons to


    There are families there, in Donbass, who have had to bury small kids, because of Kiev, not Moscow

    These people now hate Ukraine; much like Syrians probably hate Assad and Russia; or Palestinians - Israel.

    A woman one of whose children was killed, and who herself lost a hand, in Ukrainian shelling


    Again, no offence, but you don't get it... Yes, Putin has his evil plans. But, the guys in Kiev are little better.

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