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Thread: Two State Solution Possible in Israel?

  1. #1
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    Two State Solution Possible in Israel?

    Probably not. Although a two-state approach to resolving the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians would ideally solve most of the territorial disputes there, I doubt the willingness of Hamas to actually resolve the issue peacefully.

    The cultural and religious disparities between the two groups is too large for them to co-exist near one another, and sovereignty would effectively take away all of the grievances held by Palestine, thus undermining their justification for war against Israel. I think it's in the best interest of Israel to remove Hamas's influence from the Gaza Strip; only then can talks of a two-state solution begin.

  2. #2
    katiegrrl0

    Re: Two State Solution Possible in Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chase View Post
    Probably not. Although a two-state approach to resolving the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians would ideally solve most of the territorial disputes there, I doubt the willingness of Hamas to actually resolve the issue peacefully.

    The cultural and religious disparities between the two groups is too large for them to co-exist near one another, and sovereignty would effectively take away all of the grievances held by Palestine, thus undermining their justification for war against Israel. I think it's in the best interest of Israel to remove Hamas's influence from the Gaza Strip; only then can talks of a two-state solution begin.
    it does seem like a reach at this point in time. the problems run so deep and have been embedded for so long that i see little in the way of give from either side.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Winn's Avatar
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    Re: Two State Solution Possible in Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chase View Post
    Probably not. Although a two-state approach to resolving the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians would ideally solve most of the territorial disputes there, I doubt the willingness of Hamas to actually resolve the issue peacefully.

    The cultural and religious disparities between the two groups is too large for them to co-exist near one another, and sovereignty would effectively take away all of the grievances held by Palestine, thus undermining their justification for war against Israel. I think it's in the best interest of Israel to remove Hamas's influence from the Gaza Strip; only then can talks of a two-state solution begin.
    Agreed. We can't have a two state solution until both states believe the other has the right to exist.

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    Senior Member frodly's Avatar
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    Re: Two State Solution Possible in Israel?

    I don't agree. We could have a 2 state solution, if the US, Western Europe, Russia, and China decided that was in their best interests. With a combined effort, a 2 state solution could easily be imposed. The problem is that those groups seem about as willing to work together on big issues, as Israel and Palestinians are.

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    Veteran Member Dutch's Avatar
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    Re: Two State Solution Possible in Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chase View Post
    Probably not. Although a two-state approach to resolving the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians would ideally solve most of the territorial disputes there, I doubt the willingness of Hamas to actually resolve the issue peacefully.

    The cultural and religious disparities between the two groups is too large for them to co-exist near one another, and sovereignty would effectively take away all of the grievances held by Palestine, thus undermining their justification for war against Israel. I think it's in the best interest of Israel to remove Hamas's influence from the Gaza Strip; only then can talks of a two-state solution begin.
    You are talking about israel going to war in order to overturn an election. Wow!! That's not very liberal is it? Maybe it is now, I dunno. I can say removing hamas may not have the desired effect. Because hamas, a client organization of iran, is there as a result of appealing to the palestinean people. Take them out and you will probably get another organization just as opposed to the existance of the israeli state as hamas.....and iran.......and syria.......and libya........and..........saudi arabia......and......

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    Senior Member frodly's Avatar
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    Re: Two State Solution Possible in Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    You are talking about israel going to war in order to overturn an election. Wow!! That's not very liberal is it? Maybe it is now, I dunno. I can say removing hamas may not have the desired effect. Because hamas, a client organization of iran, is there as a result of appealing to the palestinean people. Take them out and you will probably get another organization just as opposed to the existance of the israeli state as hamas.....and iran.......and syria.......and libya........and..........saudi arabia......and......

    Hamas is not a client organization of Iran. They are a sunni organization with close ties to Saudi Arabia and Egypt. That is not to say, they are completely hostile. But to say Hamas is a client of Iran is simply wrong.

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    Re: Two State Solution Possible in Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by frodly View Post
    I don't agree. We could have a 2 state solution, if the US, Western Europe, Russia, and China decided that was in their best interests. With a combined effort, a 2 state solution could easily be imposed. The problem is that those groups seem about as willing to work together on big issues, as Israel and Palestinians are.
    How would cooperation from the US, China, etc. better achieve a two-state solution? Are you suggesting that more pressure from the international community would facilitate an agreement between Israel and Palestine?

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    Senior Member frodly's Avatar
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    Re: Two State Solution Possible in Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chase View Post
    How would cooperation from the US, China, etc. better achieve a two-state solution? Are you suggesting that more pressure from the international community would facilitate an agreement between Israel and Palestine?

    I believe that it would, yes. The Israel is quite susceptible to pressure from the US. But I feel that if the US acted alone, it would remove some legitimacy from the process, as many in the middle east are suspicious of the US. The problem is, at the moment Israel has no reason to settle, and Palestine is not capable of forcing them to settle. They will only settle when it becomes in their best interest to do so. Increased pressure from the international community would absolutely increase their interest in finding a solution to the problem. The problem is, that at the moment, the US supports Israel without question. So Israel does not have to worry about international pressure, because the most powerful nation in the world supports them completely.

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    Re: Two State Solution Possible in Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by frodly View Post
    I believe that it would, yes. The Israel is quite susceptible to pressure from the US. But I feel that if the US acted alone, it would remove some legitimacy from the process, as many in the middle east are suspicious of the US. The problem is, at the moment Israel has no reason to settle, and Palestine is not capable of forcing them to settle. They will only settle when it becomes in their best interest to do so. Increased pressure from the international community would absolutely increase their interest in finding a solution to the problem. The problem is, that at the moment, the US supports Israel without question. So Israel does not have to worry about international pressure, because the most powerful nation in the world supports them completely.
    The US does not support Israel without question. There's a large, ongoing diplomatic dispute right now between the United States and Israel regarding the latter's decision to construct over one thousand apartments in an area occupied by Palestinians. Joe Biden openly condemned the policy; aides to President Obama are doing the same thing. I think this administration is more intent on resolving the conflict than any other since Carter, and they certainly aren't kowtowing to Israel like the Bush administration was.

    But in response to your claim that international pressure would prompt Israel to settle the disagreement, that very well may be true, but cooperation is needed from both Israel and Palestine. Israel will certainly change course if it's under pressure from the US, Russia, etc., but the same cannot be said for Palestine. I think it is ultimately unwilling to resolve the dispute, and its backers (Saudia Arabia, Iran, Egypt, etc.) won't put too much pressure on it to reach a peace agreement.

  10. #10
    Senior Member frodly's Avatar
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    Re: Two State Solution Possible in Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chase View Post
    The US does not support Israel without question. There's a large, ongoing diplomatic dispute right now between the United States and Israel regarding the latter's decision to construct over one thousand apartments in an area occupied by Palestinians. Joe Biden openly condemned the policy; aides to President Obama are doing the same thing. I think this administration is more intent on resolving the conflict than any other since Carter, and they certainly aren't kowtowing to Israel like the Bush administration was.

    But in response to your claim that international pressure would prompt Israel to settle the disagreement, that very well may be true, but cooperation is needed from both Israel and Palestine. Israel will certainly change course if it's under pressure from the US, Russia, etc., but the same cannot be said for Palestine. I think it is ultimately unwilling to resolve the dispute, and its backers (Saudia Arabia, Iran, Egypt, etc.) won't put too much pressure on it to reach a peace agreement.

    I don't agree with you. The US has politicians who are willing to very gently criticize Israeli policy, but they are never willing to act in a forceful manner to change that policy. Also, your claim that Israel would be more willing to negotiate isn't true. Neither side is willing to negotiate, because the issue of Jerusalem cannot be compromised. Both sides want control of Jerusalem, and neither side is going to budge without significant outside pressure being placed on the 2 sides. Which is exactly why I said it would have to be a effort which included the US, Western Europe, Russia, and China. That collection of countries is more than capable of putting pressure on the Arab countries you mentioned, who would in turn pressure Hamas. As I said, I am saying this as if it is simple. That could not be further from the truth. But if those countries were to work together in a serious effort to broker peace between Israel and Palestinians, that collection of countries could dictate terms to both sides. Of course they couldn't force them to do anything they were dead set against, but they could force them to accept terms they wouldn't otherwise. A system in which Jerusalem was open and free to both sides could be established, with an international peace keeping force involved to keep the peace. Of course again, this may not work to perfection in practice, but in theory it could work.

    I do not want to make it seem that a solution would be easy. I don't think it would be. But I do strongly disagree with your assertion that the US ever opposes Israeli policy in any significant fashion. And I also disagree that political pressure could not be used to influence Palestinian policies. It absolutely could. It is just that it could not be dictated by the US alone. It would have to include every major power in the world. And as I said to begin with, they are only slightly more likely to work together than Israel and Palestinians are.

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