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Thread: Saint Andrew Jackson

  1. #51
    New Member PopeADope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puzzling Evidence View Post
    You are using faulty logic, Indians as a people killed, but even they did not kill women and children. I have to laugh at your "but, they did it too" response to every bad thing that ever happened in life. Eventually, you have to do a little bit of navel gazing and say, "wow, this is so fucked up." You seem incapable of holding your hero's to any kind of higher standard.
    Not everything heros do is heroic. The battle of New Orleans and walking away from getting shot in the heart is heroic.

    Surviving the Revolutionary War when all of his family died is heroic.

    The fact that he was the first president on which there was an assassination attempt and two bullets misfired is quite remarkable. The fact that he rose from the muck of poverty as an orphan is quite an inspiration.

    The fact that he became President when he was uneducated and unqualified to be president is at least interesting to say the least.

    King David was a man after God's own Heart , yet he killed enormous amounts of people and had his right-hand man killed so he could get away with boning his wife.

    Even heroes can go through some highly idiotic and insane phases.

  2. #52
    vulgar? Rasselas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopeADope View Post
    Jackson's war with the Native Americans is no more racist than Napoleon invading Spain, Prussia, or Russia.
    Not really equivalent, since those were nation states opposing each other. Native Americans did not have a nation state. And they were considered "savages," something less than human, which was never true of Napoleon.
    It was no more racist than the Rwanda genocide or the way people butcher each other in Somalia, Congo, Iraq Syria, or Nigeria.
    Probably true, but so what? Do you see anyone defending the Rwandan genocide or the ethnic fighting in those other places?
    It was no more racist than Native American tribes killing each other or the Aztecs savagely mutilating and sacrificed their own people and butchering their Native neighbors.
    I'm not sure what the Aztecs have to do with the Native Americans of more temperate zones. Native Americans in our part of the world never attempted to eradicate each other.

  3. #53
    Moderator jacobfitcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Say hello to the others on my ignore list.
    With less than 40 posts, is that the fastest someone has ever made you list?

  4. #54
    New Member PopeADope's Avatar
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    The point I was making is that he was not racist and the war was not about race. He raised an Indian boy and loved him like his own son.

    It had to do with them allying themselves with the British, how fragile and vulnerable Americans felt at the time, and the fact that he saw them as a threat.

    It is terrible to see such suffering and I'm not justifying it, but it is a good thing to look at what the true motives were.
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  5. #55
    vulgar? Rasselas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopeADope View Post
    The point I was making is that he was not racist and the war was not about race. He raised an Indian boy and loved him like his own son.[
    That may be. It was ethnic cleansing.

    It had to do with them allying themselves with the British, how fragile and vulnerable Americans felt at the time, and the fact that he saw them as a threat.
    It would be interesting for you to provide some evidence for this. Since Jackson's presidency didn't occur until almost a generation after the War of 1812, I find the idea of their alignment with the British to be suspect. (Indians had aligned themselves AGAINST the British and with the French during the Seven Years War, for example.)

    It is terrible to see such suffering and I'm not justifying it, but it is a good thing to look at what the true motives were.
    I think Jackson thought himself justified not because Indians were aligned with someone or posed a significant threat to the US. Rather, the US wished to expand into Indian-held territory. Certainly Native Americans posed a threat to US settlements within territory they considered their own, but who can blame them for that?

    I would point to the fact that Jackson's actions were ILLEGAL as the major reason to condemn them--and him.
    Thanks from Coyote and Hollywood

  6. #56
    Above the FRAY Friday13's Avatar
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  7. #57
    olguy OlGuy's Avatar
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    Condemning history, when to start? The largest force for collecting indian slaves for the British was done by the indian tribe of Chickasaws.
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  8. #58
    New Member PopeADope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlGuy View Post
    Condemning history, when to start? The largest force for collecting indian slaves for the British was done by the indian tribe of Chickasaws.
    Amen!

  9. #59
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopeADope View Post
    The smiley face indicated the obvious fact that I was joking about the "good luck". Andy must be pissed at me because good luck charms are associated with the occult.

    Whether or not he would find it offensive to be on a 20$ , I simply don't know. It's a possibility.
    ....
    It's not "a possibility." It's a CERTAINTY. His opposition to the Federal Reserve Bank was a hallmark of his administration. By insisting that he remain on the $20 bill, you are dishonoring him. I'm starting to think that you really don't like Jackson.

  10. #60
    MAKE iT STOP! Puzzling Evidence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopeADope View Post
    Not everything heros do is heroic. The battle of New Orleans and walking away from getting shot in the heart is heroic.

    Surviving the Revolutionary War when all of his family died is heroic.

    The fact that he was the first president on which there was an assassination attempt and two bullets misfired is quite remarkable. The fact that he rose from the muck of poverty as an orphan is quite an inspiration.

    The fact that he became President when he was uneducated and unqualified to be president is at least interesting to say the least.

    King David was a man after God's own Heart , yet he killed enormous amounts of people and had his right-hand man killed so he could get away with boning his wife.

    Even heroes can go through some highly idiotic and insane phases.
    I survived an attempt on my life....I got no family and I (too my knowledge) haven't killed anyone. Can I become St Puzzling Evidence? Will you start a thread about me, Almighty?? I survived flipping over in a pickup truck and walked away without a scratch. Does that mean that I have favor from God even though Im a pagan? Can I get my ugly mug on a bill? Can I go to heaven EVEN THOUGH I'm an asshole?

    ANSWER ME, DAMN iT!!!!

    E. Pluribus unum.
    Last edited by Puzzling Evidence; 7th June 2016 at 05:41 AM.

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