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Thread: What we are not taught about Crusades

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    New Member PopeADope's Avatar
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    What we are not taught about Crusades

    I just made this short vid for my twitter. Thought I'd share here:
    https://youtu.be/1GreH0Ya2bQ

    It is simply stating the fact that if Christians didn't unite against Islamic aggression, they would have all been on their face five times a day facing mecca, deprived of freedom, and Europe would be a Muslim Continent.

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    Veteran Member PACE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopeADope View Post
    I just made this short vid for my twitter. Thought I'd share here:
    https://youtu.be/1GreH0Ya2bQ

    It is simply stating the fact that if Christians didn't unite against Islamic aggression, they would have all been on their face five times a day facing mecca, deprived of freedom, and Europe would be a Muslim Continent.

    No references, no foundation in any reference material, uber fail.
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    vulgar? Rasselas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopeADope View Post
    I just made this short vid for my twitter. Thought I'd share here:
    https://youtu.be/1GreH0Ya2bQ

    It is simply stating the fact that if Christians didn't unite against Islamic aggression, they would have all been on their face five times a day facing mecca, deprived of freedom, and Europe would be a Muslim Continent.
    Except that they turned away Islamic aggression, rather effectively, in ways that had nothing to do with the Crusades. The fight to maintain Christendom was fought on European soil over the period of several hundred years, often long after the advances of the Crusades had been turned back.

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    New Member PopeADope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACE View Post
    No references, no foundation in any reference material, uber fail.
    Did or did Christians not unite to kick Muslims out of France and Spain, and did they not halt the Ottoman advances and save Europe from an Islamic take-over?

    Were the Crusades not a response to Islamic aggression and muslims using violence to steal land that didn't belong to them?
    Last edited by PopeADope; 5th June 2016 at 02:00 PM.

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    Wrinkly Member Dangermouse's Avatar
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    In short, no.
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    New Member PopeADope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    Except that they turned away Islamic aggression, rather effectively, in ways that had nothing to do with the Crusades. The fight to maintain Christendom was fought on European soil over the period of several hundred years, often long after the advances of the Crusades had been turned back.
    Yes, the part I was saying that they leave out, is that the Crusades against Islam were largely a just war , and that in school we are told how horrible the Crusades are, while people remain silent about the fact that there are currently Crusades going on and inquisitions under a different name.

    Muslims are depriving hundreds of millions of people of freedom. Without a bloody Christian counter-attack, that would have dominated Europe.

    Not to mention, Muslims still have that goal and are accomplishing it , and very open about it.

    The Pope declared a crusade which sunk the Turkish Fleet at Lepanto which halted the Turkish advance and the Empire began losing battle after battle an unraveling afterwards.

    No worries, I'll get you some sources its just I'm on a phone now and it is slightly annoying.

    Now, whether the Pope says it is a crusade in Spain or not, it was the Christians uniting to kick Muslims out of the lands that they had conquered.

    Those were crusades in every way , save for the Pope not using that vocabulary , but the Pope was the chief Shepherd of Christianity , and it was Christians choosing to fight Muslims and kick their ass out that saved Europe.

    The part I was talking of that people are so fond of leaving out is the fact that the Crusades were a just war against people who were invading, conquering, brainwashing, and enslaving many nations.

    The documentaries and lectures that I received on the Crusades growing up paint the picture as a bunch of bigoted Christians forcing their culture upon these poor victimized Muslims because they didn't embrace the same faith.

    Now, I strongly disagree with many atrocities committed by the Crusaders, but the cause itself , against such an enemy was just & Noble.
    Last edited by PopeADope; 5th June 2016 at 02:03 PM.

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    vulgar? Rasselas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopeADope View Post
    Yes, the part I was saying that they leave out, is that the Crusades against Islam were largely a just war , and that in school we are told how horrible the Crusades are, while people remain silent about the fact that there are currently Crusades going on and inquisitions under a different name.
    "Just war" is an entirely subjective concept. People justify war in all sorts of ways. I'm not sure even the Christians who controlled the Levant before the Muslims conquered it wanted the kind of feudal kingdom the first crusaders set up--and then lost less than a century later.

    Muslims are depriving hundreds of millions of people of freedom. Without a bloody Christian counter-attack, that would have dominated Europe.
    This paragraph suffers from a time warp. You're wrong about Muslim domination of Europe.

    Not to mention, Muslims still have that goal and are accomplishing it , and very open about it.
    Why is it that most Muslims disapprove of those who are "accomplishing it"? Plus, those forces are losing ground, not gaining it.

    The Pope declared a crusade which sunk the Turkish Fleet at Lepanto which halted the Turkish advance and the Empire began losing battle after battle an unraveling afterwards.
    The Muslims didn't even conquer the capital of the EASTERN Christian empire until 500 years later.

    No worries, I'll get you some sources its just I'm on a phone now and it is slightly annoying.
    Okay.

    Now, whether the Pope says it is a crusade in Spain or not, it was the Christians uniting to kick Muslims out of the lands that they had conquered.
    Four hundred years later.

    Those were crusades in every way , save for the Pope not using that vocabulary , but the Pope was the chief Shepherd of Christianity , and it was Christians choosing to fight Muslims and kick their ass out that saved Europe.
    They involved Spanish forces. It was a Spanish war, not a Crusade.

    The part I was talking of that people are so fond of leaving out is the fact that the Crusades were a just war against people who were invading, conquering, brainwashing, and enslaving many nations.
    Sounds like what every great empire does. Same thing Rome did. Same thing Alexander did. Same thing the Chinese did.

    The documentaries and lectures that I received on the Crusades growing up paint the picture as a bunch of bigoted Christians forcing their culture upon these poor victimized Muslims because they didn't embrace the same faith.
    That's a silly view too.

    Now, I strongly disagree with many atrocities committed by the Crusaders, but the cause itself , against such an enemy was just & Noble.
    Sounds like a bunch of people who didn't like an Islamic land grab, who in turn engaged in a land grab of their own.
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    EYE like U Puzzling Evidence's Avatar
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    Pope guy, you're getting too much airtime.

    I need a vacation from your ridiculousness.

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    New Member PopeADope's Avatar
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    [quote ]The Muslims didn't even conquer the capital of the EASTERN Christian empire until 500 years later. [/quote]

    False

    Whoever told you that was off by more than 600 years

    The crusade that crushed the Turks at Lepanto took place in 1571. Fall of Constantinople was 1453.

    It was known as "the battle that saved the west "
    Last edited by PopeADope; 5th June 2016 at 03:29 PM.

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    vulgar? Rasselas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopeADope View Post
    [quote ]The Muslims didn't even conquer the capital of the EASTERN Christian empire until 500 years later.

    False

    Whoever told you that was off by more than 600 years

    The crusade that crushed the Turks at Lepanto took place in 1571. Fall of Constantinople was 1453.
    It was known as "the battle that saved the west "[/QUOTE]The first (and only successful) Crusade was declared in 1095. All the others were reversals or frauds. I was off by more like 100 years. BTW, they'd been TRYING to capture Constantinople for several hundred years before that.

    The only way someone can call a war "just" is if that war is defensive. When you try to conquer new territory that you did not own before, that's OFFENSIVE.

    The only way you can justify your argument is by insisting that all wars between Christians and Muslims were crusades, when in fact that idea is your own invention.

    The Crusades were not terrible Christians against innocent Muslims, nor was it the other way around. They were wars for territory between international consortiums of groups, organized around religion. Most of them were conflicts over venial motivations (kings and other powerful men wanted more stuff and thought they could get it through armed conflict) just like every other war.
    Last edited by Rasselas; 5th June 2016 at 03:37 PM.
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